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Games Entertainment

Sony Suing Connectix over Mac Playstation Emulator 81

Posted by CmdrTaco from the dollars-and-tekken dept.
phorce phed writes " According to this ZDNNet burst Sony is seeking a temporary injunction against sale of the Virtual Game Station (Connectix's soon-to-be-released PlayStation emulator)." We mentioned this when it was more of a rumor, but now its apparently for real.
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Sony Suing Connectix over Mac Playstation Emulator More

Sony Suing Connectix over Mac Playstation Emulator

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  • "Clearly it can't check for the black coat since Mac CDROM drives don't have the extra piece of hardware that the PSX does. . ."

    Couple of things:

    First, a minor nitpick: the "black coat" is actually a very dark blue. Second, I don't believe it's possible to check the colour of the bottom of a CD in any CDROM drive, though since I know nothing of the mechanics of CDROM drives and the lasers used therein, I could be wrong. The way that PSX games are copy-protected is that some blocks on the CDs are intentionally munged in such a way that normal CDROM drives 'correct' them (which, of course, actually munges it further so that if you try to copy it the copy is useless in a PSX) when they read them, but the PSX CDROM drive doesn't.
  • Standard Oil, New York.
  • When you totally miss the point, you say something that makes you look like an idiot.
  • >The only problem here is that Sony is making money from the PlayStation.
    >Emulators for these game systems *might* technically be illegal

    I think not. Atari was still making money off of 2600 systems when Coleco came up with their add-on 2600 emulator. Atari sued and lost. Hence, the precenent was set that emulators are not illegal.

    All that can really still be an issue is how Connectix handled the PlayStation BIOS. If it's an unlicensed verbatim copy, Connectix will be in trouble. If it's a compatible substitute written from the ground up then they're OK just like BIOSs in PC clones are not grounds for lawsuits anymore.
  • Gee, how dispicable, someone might code products that actually show how ridiculous the platform wars can be by eroding the platform-gap... given that this was developed in a double-blind environment and no IP was stolen, my heart doesnt hurt for Sony one bit...

    ... in fact, reminds me of another infamous standards battle way back in the early 80s... as it turned out then, the only people who lost were consumer by being stuck with inferior technology and Sony for creating a closed market and limiting their own potential userbase. How many kids these days even know what BetaMax was?
  • You are confusing two different product categories: terminal emulators, which are simple telecom apps intended to provide a range of connectivity options for microcomputers which emulate "dumb terminals"...

    ..then there are the emulators in question which are essentially a set of routines to allow one type of hardware to execute instructions written for a different chipset.. whether it is a single component, like Apples m68k emulator built in to their PPC-based systems, or a complete system emulator such as VirtualPC or Virtual Game Station which emulates an entire environment. One of my machines is a high-end PowerMac with VirtualPC and 6 different OSes running under it (each has its own drive file, like a subpartition of sorts). While there is always a performance hit, it provides an excellent environment for cross-platform development of any kind. :)
  • What 'irks' me is that Connectix has probably used these free emulators as the basis for their development.

    Very doubtful. While all the PSX emulators out there are zero-cost (except VGS), all of them are also closed-source. I doubt Connectix would be stupid enough to reverse-engineer those. Not that it would have done them much good; they're pretty much all written in x86 assembly (they'd have to be in order to get the speed even semi-acceptable), and that stuff is immensely painful to translate into something a PPC chip can use.
  • Actually, that's hardly the copy-protection sceme a PSX uses (if that were true a PSX wouldn't be able to play audio CD's, which also lack this barcode).

    VGS does not bypass copy-protection. Indeed, it takes pains to honor it. Some crackers have made "Modchip patches" which will prevent this, but VGS itself doesn't bypass any copy-protection schemes out there. I've tried it; it simply does not work that way.

  • Hello? (Score:1)

    by syntax ( 2932 )
    thats horrible code and coding style. that is c notation, but dont even try running that through a compiler!
    A> cout is a stream, it requires the standards for defines is all caps, it should be "if (Sony == BUNCH_OF_RAT_FUCK_NUTS)"
    C> got languages mixed up? C functions and procedures take parameters in ()'s seperated by commas.

    It SHOULD BE:
    if (Sony == BUNCH_OF_RAT_BASTARD_FUCKNUTS) {
    download(VGS,net);
    printf("Sony is a bunch of rat bastards\n");
    }
    else
    buy(VGS);

    thank you.
    (and yes, minus well follow a worthless post with a worthless post that knit picks.)
  • is at www.MacWeek.com [zdnet.com].

    David Gould
  • for making a Un*x workalike without using Un*x source code :/

    Sheesh.
  • I won't say it....... ;-) Couldn't resist.
  • I was commenting on the first post thing. Just being juvenile. Please forgive me. I figure it's a one in a lifetime opportunity. = )
    Actually, I think the Sony suit is a bunch of bullshit. Why do they need to do this? It's senseless. Like people are going to stop buying PlayStations because of this? I don't think so..... I'm not a lawyer, but the grounds of the suit seem baseless. However, fighting this could kill Connectix.
  • Let's start:
    >Sony made the PlayStation to make money. It is their proprietary system.

    True. So far so good.

    >They may make money from selling the system.

    *BZZZZZZZ* Wrong. They loose money on every box they sell. They only make money on software.

    >They new Connectix thing endangers how Sony is making money from the PlayStation.

    Again - you're wrong. Sony sells more boxes than there are G3 Powermacs (read: potential clients) over and over and over again.
    The market for G3s with this software would be SO small why would anyone develop a game for using the emulator? That's insane! Why not just develop a Mac game?
    Or are you contending that people could use it for developing NON-Sony approved games and sell those for the Play Station? It's a huge jump to say that a program I can buy would allow me use it as a development tool to produce games. You can easily find the information for how the Sony Playstation works and the APIs etc - those aren't secret - heck the Connectix product isn't even the only emulator out there.

    >Furthermore, as Timur mentioned, the emulator does not honor the copy protection encoding. This endangers the profits of all those game makers who have the blessing of and pay Sony.

    Why?!? If there a game that doesn't follow the copy protection doesn't that mean that THAT game could be copied? So I use Connectix's product to create a PlayStation game - in a way that has yet to be established - that can be copied because I ignore 'Sony required copy protection'. Why does that endanger the profits of another developer? My game can be copied but theirs can't - doesn't that threaten MY profits?
    Or are you saying that I can take my friends copy of a Playstation game, copy it to play on my G3 PowerMac? I doubt that very much:
    1)My friend would PROBABLY just lend it to me - no profit for the manufacturer anyway
    2)The market would be VERY small compared to the existing market - 50,000 MAYBE - and all those are
    al new potential customers. Even if a few copy disks some of them will go out and buy them.

    >So, Sony is taking legal action to ensure their profits by maintaning tight control of the PlayStation system. Their tight control is very common in the video game market.

    Well, you're right there. But common doesn't mean right, legal or good. Look at M$....

    =tkk
  • Another possible outcome: there have been rumors that Apple would acquire Connectix (before the Sony action). They'd get the emulator smarts as well as specific good products like Virtual PC the VGS. If this actually happened soon, Apple's lawyer's would probably get a better deal out of Sony's lawyers than Connectix could.
  • I can see why any company would try to hunt down and kill the emulators (even if I don't agree with it), but I think Sony stands to succeed where Nintendo failed simply for the profit return factor. The law will definately look at this instance differently since Connectix stands to make money off of technology developed by Sony while the makers of SNes9x and such didn't recieve any profits. While it is true that Sony doesn't make much (if any) off the sale of Playstation hardware units, it does make since that they would want to keep the platform proprietary and ensure sell-through quality to the consumer. If Connectix's emulator is released and becomes rather sucessful, it is no doubt that the market would soon be flooded with emulators most likely of lesser quality. A sea of semi compatible commercial emulators of poor quality would be bad for the image of the Playstation platform reguardless of Sony's involvement in their creation. VGS is facing this lawsuit because it is the first of its kind, bleem will no doubt face similar problems in the future if it goes commercial.

    In short, I really don't like this lawsuit. But, it makes a hell of a lot of sense for Sony.
  • I mean, hey, this is an *emulator* we're talking about here, right? This could set a really nasty legal precedent... and there are a LOT of emulators out there, and a lot of people that depend on them.

    I think the suit is kind of pointless myself, but what I want to know is, is there any real legal base to this?

    - Slarty
  • There are no AS/400 emulators that run on PCs.

    There are terminal emulators that allow PCs to connect to AS/400s. And there have been since the AS/400 was released. The current version shipped with OS/400 is called Client Access. It used to be called PC Support.

    This was not a case of exchanging hardware for software, it was a case of IBM meeting the needs of their AS/400 clients.

    SteveM
  • I have plenty of mac-using friends who ... have now just downloaded VGS ...

    Where did they get it?

    Sony's "groundless" suit is about the disruption of their software distribution ...

    What laws protect software distribution in this sense? If Connectix did not infringe on Sony's intellectual property, then it is irrelavent if one can play imported or pirated games.

    ... the Connectix emulator actually makes it easier to play pirated and imported games...

    While I have no problem with Sony going after software pirates, I do have a problem with the idea of geographical zones for software or DVDs. I think that it is absurd that if while I am in Japan I buy a game or movie that I can't play on a machine I bought in the states. I'm sure glad I can play imported music CDs. The only reason for this is greed, and if Connectix helps destroy that distribution model I say more power to them.

    SteveM
  • And how would this in and of itself be illegal?

    Would not the manufacture of the copy be the illegal act? Since the VGS was not made only to play illegal copies, I don't see how this could be grounds for a suit.

    However, I am not a lawyer, nor do I expect the legal system to be logical.

    SteveM

  • And you can order a copy here [virtualgamestation.com].

    SteveM
  • VPC is a Pentium® MMX(TM) PC in software, not a Windows emulator. You can run any OS that runs on a Pentium on VPC.

    SteveM
  • When youre tired of making money by creating and selling stuff, you do it by calling in the lawyers.
  • ...and the emulator isn't a product in and of it self that is worthy to be sold? Sony's case is totally groundless. Show me one person who uses an emulator for _any_ machine, who would have actually bought the machine had the emulator not been available.

    This is like Nike suing Reebok for making socks that fit into Nike shoes.
  • The playstation's copyprotection consists of having the playstation cds burned with incorrect checksums on the theory that normal burners will put in the correct checksums when burning the data. The ubiquitous modchips get around this restriction, but VGS officially honors this copy protection.
  • Disagree with Sony's point of view? Tell them at http://www.playstation.com/scripts/ feedback.plx [playstation.com]
  • Oh no! I'm going to cry for Sony now.

    Haven't you heard the old adage?
    You can always tell the pioneers, they're the ones
    with the arrows in their back.

    Seriously, though, this is what happens in every
    industry. Its a big race between those who are first to the market, and those who are the fast/cheap followers. Its just a question of whether the early adopters provide a critical mass in market dominance, or the price-sensitive majority runs the market over. Think Beta vs VHS?

    As long as it sells more software, I think Sony should relax a bit.

    -sk
  • Everybody, don't forget that all PlayStations have copy protection built right in. You can't go burn a CD and just start playing it.

    I wonder if these emulators enforce this?

    You can already take a $15 chip, a screw driver, and a soldering iron to your playstation to defeat this. Emulators are just another drag on their software sales.

    Just a thought.
  • Anyone who wants to defend emulation from threats both current and future, put together a petition against Sony's injunction!!!
  • Sony tries to get an injunction, saying the VGS allows pirated games to run on the Mac.

    Connectix's response? The updated VGS 1.1 doesn't play pirated games.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  • You sound as if you know something about playstation prices. FYI:

    Playstations cost about $130 right now. Initially at launch, Sony _lost_ money on every Playstation console sold. Since Sony cut down on manufactured parts for the PSX and moved production to sweatshop factories a while back, they've been able to turn a profit of about $20 per machine. Yes, this IS a profit, but not nearly what they'd get off of $250. When was the last time you went shopping?

    I know several people who were PSX developers. Sony gets a flat fee of about $7-8 for every playstation game sold. That means, whether or not the game bombs or does well, Sony gets SEVEN TO EIGHT BUCKS for every Playstation disc sold. Whether the game is $20 or $50, Sony gets SEVEN TO EIGHT BUCKS for each disc sold. This is a lot more burdensome for smaller developers than the typical percentage royalty, which is what Sony initially charged developers for Playstation licenses. Now that Sony's console is king of the hill, Sony decided they'd charge a flat per-disc-sold fee and screw anyone who complained.
  • My friend bought one at MacWorld, and we gave it a homegrown test. We tried Japanese games on them, and it wouldn't play the japanese games, but his gold CD playstation games worked just fine. (No, we're not bootleggers, my friend worked for a Playstation developer).
  • Sony made the PlayStation to make money. It is their proprietary system. They may make money from selling the system. They do make money from selling the rights and information to make games for the system.

    They new Connectix thing endangers how Sony is making money from the PlayStation. Now, someone else knows how the games work and could inform game makers so that these game makers could make PlayStation games without the blessing of or payment to Sony. Furthermore, as Timur mentioned, the emulator does not honor the copy protection encoding. This endangers the profits of all those game makers who have the blessing of and pay Sony.

    So, Sony is taking legal action to ensure their profits by maintaning tight control of the PlayStation system. Their tight control is very common in the video game market.

    If Sony loses, all video game systems will become more expensive to make because of the ability to make ganmes without the help of the vendor, and the ability to copy some games. The whole market has been threatend by Connectix. Nintendo, Atari, and several other companies could find themseleves in great trouble through lack of profits if Sony loses.
  • I think this proves my point quite nicely. Sony wants to maintain its monopoly over its PlayStation microcosm. Too many incursions that go too far into that mircocosm threaten Sony's monopoly.

    Circumvent copy protection so games can be copied, circulate knowlege gained through emulation on how the system works, etc . . . and no one needs Sony anymore to have PlayStations and new PlayStation games. Some of Sony's income is threatened. The goal of a capitolist society, like the one Sony exists in, is to accumulate wealth. Sony sees that it will lose its ability to gain wealth from the PlayStation if its monopoly over the PlayStation is lost. Sony makes the *logical* move to prevent others from taking away its monoploy.

    After all, their business is greed. Accept it and move on.
  • have you seen Connectix' Virtual PC...I don't think Connectix needs to steal anything from anybody
  • So, Sony loses money on the Playstation. So what? They make money off games, and Connectix is adding to the number of games Sony can sell.
  • Actually, I think you mean, "Don't the makers of Playstation Games see the great advantage of selling more games?" Sony itself only manufactures a small fraction of Playstation games. Everything else is Third Party stuff. Supposedly, that why Saturn got left behind.

    Sigh. I've got my old Sega Saturn stashed under my desk at home, languishing for the day that someone writes an emulator for it. After all, the CDs are PC-readable...

    Skevin
  • I wonder if INTeL will be next in line to sue Connectix for their Virtual PC software (an x86 processor "emulator")? I'd love to see this go on ... sidster--
  • VPC is a x86 processor "emulator".

    You must be thinking of SoftWindows or
    something else.

    sidster--

  • Look I do not claim to know how it all works, but a have a copy of VGS and its DOES NOT play games that are not US NTSC games, ie Jap, Uk or Copies.
    And further more it will not even let you install it on a Non Us System (Mac Os System).
    But there are many Kracks out there that Rip all this shit out, and i can now happley Play all my game UK US Jap And Copies.

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