New Linux Game needs Developers 156
shaggs writes "Time City is an open source, linux, 1st person action game, that will have time travel, network capabilities and more. We are currently looking for volunteers for all aspects of this project, and we need you the community to help. If you have any talents to offer us, visit Time City and sign up to volunteer today! "
This looks pretty cool. It will use the Crystal Space engine and be openly developed. With all the positive
exposure Linux has gotten, gaming is one of the areas where Linux is not well developed yet.
Free, high quality games could easily turn this around.
Re:Nice Schedule! (Score:1)
I'd personally like to see good "open source" artwork that fills a coherent game, good "OSS" sound/music, good "OSS" writing (aka design) in existence *BEFORE* all those parts are built into a game, which does depend on all of those components. In short, prove you can take small steps before you try and run a marathon with the big guys.
Re:Count me in! (Score:1)
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Did Linus say "Hey, I'm going to write a UNIX kernel, could somebody just write the scheduler and filesystem and console drivers and 386 code for me. I'll do the website!".
No, Linus WROTE SOME CODE FIRST.
These "call to arms" projects are nothing like Linux, and nothing like the Linux development model. The Linux model requires a kernel of code to work with first, not a pretty website.
Please don't forget what's out there (Score:1)
- FreeCiv needs help on gfx and sound. The new GTK interface will rock!
- GnuChess could need a fancier interface. Xboard could need some refreshnes.
There are many more. Like flightsimulators, lemings like game, battle games, etc..
Support them!
Re:Weirdness potential (Score:1)
We all know that there's a small number of people with the ability to help a project like this. Batman's Robin, Linus's Alan Cox, and even Uta of the WorldForge project. But all you need is one of these types of people, and the rest will come.
I think that that's why this type of project announcement is useful... Maybe one of those few special people are listening. These special folks are certainly ignoring the pessimism spewing forth in this forum, and maybe, just maybe, this project will catch their whim. All it takes is one...
Re:3d FPS shooters and Free software community (Score:1)
Really. I am tired of all these FPS and RTS games. In fact, I'd rather play chess or bridge than another quake or warcraft clone.
(Speaking of that.. There needs to be a bridge program for linux. Any coders interested?)
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Re:Server centric => low scalabilty (Score:1)
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:2)
http://www.worldforge.org/, if anyone's interested
Re:Server centric => low scalabilty (Score:1)
But if the code's open, there's nothing preventing someone from attaching a modified server that brings down the whole mess, either through malice or ignorance. Can't have that.
Or from starting up their own private server, creating a world where they can pick up arbitrarily cool items and experience for free, then connecting their newly-butch character back to the main network.
I need to do some more thinking on this, because I think there's something axiomatic here about the applicability of Open Source to cooperative versus competitive arenas. Hmmn.
Re:Thoughts on Open Source multi-player games.... (Score:1)
But isn't that what you want out of a game, too? Fair and honest competition? I'm not just being contrary, here, I'm actually interested in hearing schemes by which a multiplayer game could be totally Open Source, and still somehow offer fairness and honesty.
Re:Server centric => low scalabilty (Score:1)
If you have to be trusted to join the primary network, you create an enormous headache for the administrators in terms of validating which servers can join. You obviously can't just let any current server admin approve some other server to connect to it, a la IRC, or you fall prey to con-man attacks where a seemingly-trustworthy server is allowed to attach, and then that admin lets all his script-kiddie buddies attach at his node.
And, finally, you'd have to do constant vigilance above and beyond the original validation of a new server, so you don't get servers that are validated as running good code, and then install rogue code later.
So, your scheme re-introduces the scalability nightmare that opening up the server code was supposed to address in the first place.
Thoughts on Open Source multi-player games.... (Score:3)
Specifically, once the source goes public, there is no feasible way to prevent end users from changing the code to give themselves unfair advantages -- faster movement, more powerful weapons, brighter gamma correction, whatever -- and so disrupting the balance of the game.
As a different model, I point to the distributed.net folks, who don't release their source for very similar reasons. I posit a game-development model that follows their model -- aggressive bug fixing, constant posting of updated binaries for as many OSes as possible, and generally the same speed and responsiveness as an Open Source project, just without the actual source out there. Something much like id's scheme, but faster and more multi-platform.
Thoughts? I'd like to think that Open Source is generally a Good Thing(tm), but I'd like to hear feedback on how to make sure everyone's on a level playing field if your client code can be modified.
Re:Count me in! (Score:1)
Re:Count me in! (Score:1)
Gave me a good laugh! (Score:1)
This one's going in my funny file.
Well, "chief", (Score:1)
Here is some help: Get a new slogan. Unless this game is a parody, you will be looking at some legal problems with MS.
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
the name still sucks - its a car! Doh!
Re:Agreed again (Score:1)
Although I'm really looking forward to Oni by Bungie (http://www.bungie.com/oni/default.html)
Although it's more of a combo/improvement over current form facotrs (Quake and Mortal Kombat type games), it's sounds great. I especially like the environment space that doesn't just limit you to the door to enter a building(you could break a window somewhere in the building and enter that way or break down a door on the roof and enter that way.)
If only they could mix that with a Myst type puzzle game and things could be groovy.
or how about a MUD in the form factor of Quake (instead of Diablo or whatever) and you could paste your scanned face in there and make different skins (suits, bathing suits, etc.)
Hmm..I wish I knew how to program at that scale cause that's what I'd be working on...
----
"Wars, conflict, it's all business. One murder makes a
villain. Millions a hero. Numbers sanctify."
Erm.... (Score:1)
Unless I've missed a joke here...
Re:Linux as a Gaming Platform (Score:1)
Just a thought.
Re:Linux as a Gaming Platform (Score:1)
Yes, I realize the irony of my reply.
Re:Thoughts on Open Source multi-player games.... (Score:1)
Have the server keep an eye on player movement etc. If something looks fishy, kick/ban the player in question.
Cheating involving weird hacks happens in closed-source games too...this gets real frustrating playing games like Q2/Tribes/Whatever.
Linux RTS Games, Projects, Code (Score:1)
http://www.cgocable.net/~mlepage/rts/projects.h
I'm working on my own Linux game right this minute, re-vamping the view hierarchy. How come I don't get Slashdot articles devoted to Minion?
Game Projects (Score:2)
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:2)
When it was listed on Slashdot, one "Piece of advice" given by the Slashdot crowd was, "Bah, the name sucks, change it."
We did.
-- Bryce
Re:VERY cool sig! :) (Score:1)
Let's put it another way. Open source games (Score:1)
Game design is a complicated beast. Not only do you have to know how to code, you also have to know how to design a game to be attractive aurally, visually and above all, interest. The OS model is fine for computing utility, but recreation
I fully support the idea of open-sourcing PARTS of games. Like network code. Except that until the code is rock-hard-solid, no one would want to use it. Ways to break and exploit the system would be almost as known as the system itself.
There are some things game players aren't meant to know. Code is #1.
What would have happened if the source of Quake was released before people stopped playing it? There would be 100 times more cheaters than there already are. The ability to play would be subverted by the ability to write code. Diablo could have been a lot more popular than it was if it wasn't for exploiters.
As much as some cr/h/ackers might love the idea, it sucks as a means to have fun.
J.
Yes: we understand that. (Score:1)
It may be a good game, though.
--Lenny
Re:I'd like ... (Score:1)
Re:VERY cool sig! :) (Score:1)
Cool indeed. Now what is the point of the !! after the |. As far as I can tell they aren't needed. Works fine without them on linux 2.0 and gcc 2.7.2.3
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Re:Security by obscurity (Score:1)
So, in order to be able to trust the client, it has to be able to trust the client to tell it what data it's using?
Weirdness potential (Score:3)
You probably expect me to say something about causing major historical changes. You're waiting for me
to tell you not to touch anything, talk to anyone, or break anything. Balderdash! Just the opposite. We
want you to attempt to cause rifts in the timestream by any means necessary. Kill whomever you want.
Blow up a building if you can. It's only by testing our technology (and the universe) to it's limits that we
will learn from this experiment. Keep in mind that other historians receive the same advice; it will be just
as important to defend yourself against them, as well as the Chronopolian natives. Since we're a
scientific expedition, we're not licensed to issue weapons of any sort. You will need to find them yourself.
If this means that the game will actually try to keep track of events that happen at different times, and the way they affect each other... Well, it's hard to imagine how they'll manage it, but it could really be something. The problem is, since we can't really time-travel, how would it resolve cases like, "I think I'll beam a BFG-9000 back to the room where I had that fight last week. Then I wouldn't have gotten killed, so I would be able to do it."
They do seem to imply that that's the sort of thing they want to make possible, but it could get ridiculous, like that scene in "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure" -- "After I win, I'll go back and put a gun here that I can use to kill you (and win)." "Oh yeah? Well, after we win, we'll go back and make sure your gun isn't loaded, so we'll win."
It'll have to have some way of resolving these things: you can't have something you do take effect before the subjective time that you decide to do it, and even then it needs some way to be sure that you actually will do it before it can take effect.
This is all probably way beyond what it'll actually be, but it looks like they are going for some way of having actions and events affect each other non-sequentially. Maybe like forcing a rematch if you change the circumstances of a previous fight, and cascading the effects if the outcome is different. I hope they can pull it off.
That Crystal Space thing looks pretty interesting, too. I hadn't heard of it before. My #@%*% modem just hung up at 90% on the download, so I won't be trying it out for another few hours, though. (Why can't Netscape continue interrupted downloads instead of starting over? It does so occasionally, but it seems to decide pretty much randomly. I know, I know, read the source and fix it, right?)
David Gould
Simple fix (Score:1)
Should make things more interesting having the two "sides", IMO. I think I'll suggest this to these folks directly, too.
---
Re:What's up with that catch phrase? (Score:1)
It takes a sound mind to make something sound, (how about looking at the kernel mailing list's crap-to-ontopic ratio, interestingly linus has the lest amount of crap there, with Alan Cox dominating the crap session ) -- cant remember where this page is.. (looking for samba"?)
--
Re:3d FPS shooters and Free software community (Score:1)
Also, shouldnt
--
Linux as a Gaming Platform (Score:3)
First key is to realize that most modern BIOSes allow one to boot from CDROM. No need to have a seperate boot partition any more, let alone install Linux.
Second is to work on making the kernel use hot-loadable device drivers -- mix-n-match the components as needed for a given machine. Only load the drivers needed for a particular hardware config, etc.
Third is to have Linux able to safely read and write to other OSes partitions. Save game data and config setup can be stored on the hard drive without needing to partition it.
I'm going to quit trying to count, because I'm so freaking tired. I'll just babble on... if Linux can be designed to have a bloody fast kernel and device drivers with an excellent gaming-centric API, as well as excellent memory management functions, I'm sure game designers would find the platform extremely pleasing. As always, identifying what the customer (ie. game author) *needs* and *values* would be the trick here.
Plop in a CD, reboot the computer and, shazam, up comes the game. Quick, stable, awesome. Requires less computer hardware "power" because the OS isn't dragging things down... it'd be cool.
Gahd. Off for a nap, now...!
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
>the name still sucks - its a car! Doh!
THIS IS A WARNING:
This person, going by the name "stodge" is extremely dangerous. If you encounter this individual on the street or elsewhere, contact the police IMMEDIATELY. Keep as far away from it and warn others to take the appropriate measures as well.
Thank you for your time.
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Did you even bother to read through their website? The point of this article, is they need HELP. If they had a completed product, why would you want help? They're looking into a community effort here. (This is going to shape out the same way Linux did.)
Show you the code? How about getting your hands dirty and helping to WRITE the code?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Re:Great, Just What We Need (Score:1)
Misplaced hype (Score:1)
Re:Misplaced hype (Score:1)
Yes, but they could give the limelight to a project that has actually done something (like written some code, for example) but is nevertheless in need of developers. This would seem more appropriate.
Re:Let's put it another way. Open source games (Score:1)
This is the old "closed source is more secure" argument. By your argument, kerberos and ssh are also insecure. If "ways to break in and exploit the system" are known, then they can be fixed.
The best candidate for an opensource project IMO is the game engine, as this is something that can be constantly hacked at, modified and improved. In fact look at the number of games that are based on hacks of the Quake2 engine...
Re:Let's put it another way. Open source games (Score:1)
Personally, I look forward to game inwhich programming is rewarded with being able to interact with the game system better. In other words, I look forward to the time when the game is some server program and half of the skill is actually manipulating the existing rules to outperform your oponents.
I guess it would be similar in some ways to those old syle "robot" games - where you pogram the robots. Only in this situation, you and your code would play together against the rest.
Summery: reward hacking of the game code.
cya,
Rob Shelton
What's up with that catch phrase? (Score:1)
Re:What's up with that catch phrase? (Score:1)
Re:Nice Schedule! (Score:1)
VERY cool sig! :) (Score:1)
Actually, this isn't a new idea... (Score:1)
How does one learn 3D game coding techniques? (Score:1)
Any suggestions?
PlayStation (Score:1)
I dont get it (Score:1)
Why not just use the model quake uses. If they plan on useing CrystalSpace, this is how it will be done.
If you think this is vapor, help CrystalSpace (Score:1)
Mazed, the CS map editor, needs help, to make it comparable to quake or better yet unreal level editors. I am guessing the unreal editor would be closer to what they wan't, since CS and unreal seem to use mostly portals for their engine, then again, I have never done any level editing for unreal, so I wouldn't know.
And, a good engine for the future games needs better model support. Right now, CrystalSpace just uses model sprites(like Quake*), not dynamic models(like Half-Life or fighting games). And for these models, you need something to make them. So help make a decent open source 3D model animator, like Extreme Wave [tamu.edu]. I say Extreme Wave becuase it apears to be the only OSS modeler that focuses on animation. Better than starting your own.
Re:Let's put it another way. Open source games (Score:1)
This might (Score:1)
DRIVER=crystalspace.graphics3d.opengl
Re:How does one learn 3D game coding techniques? (Score:1)
Hexapods 3D FAQ's [netcom.com]
This has good source of animation info.
Flipcode features [flipcode.com]
Go down to the "Building A 3D Portal Engine" section, which will take you from the ground up, even if you don't remember matrix's. CrystalSpace already has matrix operations though.
Re:Linux as a Gaming Platform (Score:1)
Configuring the OS for the system isn't trivial; it's time consuming and often not completely automatic..this seems to kill the scheme you described.
Re:Time travel and network capability! (Score:1)
Re:Thoughts on Open Source multi-player games.... (Score:1)
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:2)
I mean, don't get me wrong, I wish them luck (They've got Penn&Teller for voice actors! How cool is that?), but give people a little something that compiles first.
Where's the Code? (Score:3)
This announcement seem a little too PRish for me. They haven't even got the game engine they want to base it on complete yet, and storyline and plot are cheap. (Hey, I've got a million idea lying around.) What am I trying to say? Show Me The Code, and then an announcement is appropiate, so all we little eager Linux beaver can download, compile and bitch about bugs to be improved.
Sounds like fun.. (Score:1)
Re:Weirdness potential (Score:1)
CrystalSpace (slightly off-topic) (Score:1)
that doesn't answer my question (Score:1)
Games Development (Score:1)
Im currently involved in the development of a game currently on hold. The reason for it being on hold is that we cant afford to do it. Thats the true bottom line. We have spent thousands of hours on developing new algorithms for rendering, dynamics etc, just to get that little edge, on getting a good and thorough design, nice graphics, convincing sound-handling etc, all done in our spare time, when we were students at different schools here in Sweden. Some of our algorithms are more advanced and faster than some of IDs and 3D Realms, incredibly enough. Problem is, we dont want to release it open source, because of all the time weve spent on development on things that can be considered state-of-the-art. We dont want others to use OUR work, to achieve that status. Im out of school, unemployed, need to move away from my parents, and I need to get myself a new computer. Im waiting for answers from some companies. In the meantime, Im a poor guy who has to rely on my parents and friends to keep me fed and warm. Im constantly looking for a job. I dont have time or money to put into development, and I dont wanna give away thousands of hours of work just like that.
Another reason for keeping development proprietary is purely practical reasons: The more cooks, the worse it gets. Well, in the computer community it could be said "The more developers on a single project, the worse the product", and I find that a major issue when considering Microsoft and, actually, the Linux community reflects that fact pretty accurately. Theres a reason why the BEST games studios try to keep to a certain size.
Anders W - Inquisitor of CoJ, Champion of Lady weeanna "Why despair? We are all going to die anyway"
Re:Games Development (Score:1)
I need the new computer to be able to work(Im the lead 3d-artist, and my parents dont want me to render on their machine). We have showed a demo here in Sweden. The problem is that the government doesnt give away grants for games development, and no company weve talked with has the nerve to invest in our project. I wont get a bank loan, since I dont have any money to back us...
Ive calculated that I need to work about 35 hours/week minimum to support myself. In short, me and my friends the programmers NEED to get paid for what we do.
MVH Anders W - Inquisitor CoJ, Champion of Lady weeanna "Why despair? We are all going to die anyway"
Re:CrystalSpace (slightly off-topic) (Score:2)
A small note. On some cards you may not get the same visual quality on hardware as with software. That's a problem that we're aware of and we're working on that. The problem is that CS is using a blending mode which not all hardware cards support (2*SRC*DEST). But we're are investigating other options.
Greetings,
Re:Linux as a Gaming Platform (Score:1)
--Peter
"I'm sorry, I don't mean to rain on your parade..."
Re:VERY cool sig! :) (Score:1)
Problems with Linux for games (Score:2)
(1) Win95/98 will essentially surrender the machine with all its hardware to the game code. If the code wants to play games with hardware it can. This makes code unportable, buggy and very hard to debug and maintain, but if the code can pull this off, then it has a speed advantage. And while you don't care much about speed in, say, Civ2 and its cousins, there are a lot of other games where the speed at which the game runs is very important. By the virtue of being an OS, Linux will not permit game code to play all these maybe-clever tricks.
(2) The X graphics. They were *not* designed for fast throwing pixels/polygons at the screen and it shows. Yes, I know, there are workarounds, but again, either you climb in bed with specific hardware, forget about X and gain speed (the problems with this approach are left as the exercise for the reader), or you are at a disadvantage again.
Kaa
Re:Time City not Slashdot Worthy (Score:1)
2nd- We do need more help, hence the reason of the post. If all we had was a sight that said. Hi, nothing, help!, would you? Probably not. And as was mentioned in an earlier comment, if we had a code base, would we be looking for a staff of coders and so forth? I think not.
Sean Lutner
Webmaster (partial founder (kinda)) Time City
Re:VERY cool sig! :) (Score:1)
main(i){
putchar(352736304>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i6)}
Re:Problems with Linux for games...some solutions? (Score:1)
Since this would be a kind of boot on CD game, you can run root without any problem I think, at least when you are playing alone. There probably would be some security problems in a network but can't we do a special distro to secure this??
Or wouldn't it be possible to compile a special version of Linux that will allow user programs to directly access the display/soundcard/keyboard/joystick/network card... all the things that need a game to speed it up?? Couldn't it be possible to change Linux so you have an option at config time/a patch/any other system that will allow that without compromising the security too much (something more secure than Win9* at least).
And who talked about X window??? Crystal Space seems to work with SVGAlib so why use X-Window??? Furthermore if this is a bootable CD I really don't see the need to use X.
That's true that it would be hard to make it work on every PC due to the large range of HW their is, but wouldn't it be possible to use a directory to stock the saved games and the modules for the drivers??
The kernel would boot with the support for a generic Hard drive and a generic CD-ROM drivers and with support for ISO9660 and VFAT and Ext2fs (for those that use Linux, or ext3 if available) and load specific drivers once he is up and running, those drivers being on the hard drive.
You may say that there will be problems with different versions of kernel not being able to load the modules but if we do a specific distro to base the game development on we can assure that the kernel used does not change his loading scheme too often.
And if a free software game is enough successful I think that a lot of hardware manufacturer would make hteir hardware compatible with the game...so more hardware drivers for Linux
Of course i don't think this is that simple but without anything to base our reflexion on we can't discuss these issues.
Re:Time City not Slashdot Worthy (Score:1)
Re:Server centric => low scalabilty (Score:1)
Who's Pen and Terry? (Score:1)
--
I think this may do more than make a nice game (Score:2)
* Flesh out the GPLed game engine. I don't think any major games were made with it before (correct me if I'm wrong)
* Prove the free software development model works for games. Of course this could prove that the development model doesn't work as well. We will have to see.
* More reason for propietary game vendors to use the CrystalSpace GPLed engine. This is good.
* Flesh out OSS.
* Improve graphics support in Linux.
Of course these assume that this project is succesful. Of course, if the game turns out to be popular, the sky is the limit.
Also, if they make a version for Windows/DOS (they should, CrystalSpace is portable) and it does prove popular, then free software wins big time!
--
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:2)
No, Linus WROTE SOME CODE FIRST.
I agree with you on this. It is easier to attract developers if you at least have some small bit of code that marginally works... something that others can build on. That is why I am holding off on (officially) announcing my Diablo style game engine until it hits alpha stage. It is almost there. I hope to release something around the end of this month.
Nevertheless, I wish them luck.
Thad
Re:Server centric => low scalabilty (Score:2)
Or from starting up their own private server, creating a world where they can pick up arbitrarily cool items and experience for free, then connecting their newly-butch character back to the main network.
I've been thinking about exactly this problem. I have the beginnings of a system that could work around it. It combines a pool of tightly controlled certificate authority / key servers with the open servers that actually run the games. Anyone can run a game server, but they must link up with the key servers if they want to join the larger network.
This doesn't protect against all kinds of cheating. I imagine many types will take some social engineering. You get a reputation as a cheat, the other server admins vote to ban you from the network maybe? I'm still working on this, but I hope to post a draft RFC some time this summer.
Thad
Re:Let's put it another way. Open source games (Score:2)
I'm going to really enjoy proving you wrong. >:)
Thad
Criticism isn't blindly pessimistic (Score:1)
1. Come up with a hip, alterna-skater name and a harsh, futuristic logo.
2. Give titles to your friends ("design director", "beverage coordinator").
3. Put together an honestly impressive, graphics-laden web site.
4. Outline an ambitious game project: "A game with Unreal-style graphics set in the world of _Snow Crash_."
5. Write the background story for the game.
6. Announce your flagship title to the world, also mentioning that while you currently have a great 2D artist, musician, and team manager, you still need 3 or 4 experienced coders, plus someone to do the 3D modelling and artwork.
No offense to anyone involved--it certainly *is* an order of magnitude easier to run a website and do PR than to write a game--but this project is pretty much going by the numbers
Netrek! was: Re:Thoughts (Score:1)
The client source is available, but to be allowed to play against many servers, they have to "know" your clients key.
And the keys are not easy to get.
RSA is also an option available there.
Now, mind you, I'm no netrek God, but I know this problem's been worked on alot already.
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Alan Cox wrote a useful little discussion about this, relating to the Linux on 8086 project. (heh)
Where's the code?
Re:Who's Pen and Terry? (Score:1)
Simple Answer. Free Market economy destroyed by.. (Score:1)
Nice Schedule! (Score:2)
- Alpha 1 by end of August
- Beta 1 by End of January
- Release one year from now!
For the game industry this might be standard, but for a volunteer project quite a challenge! Let's do it!Re:Count me in! (Score:1)
It's really not childish... Childish is a matter of opinion.
Micro$oft Winblows 00
Also, if you think about it, it's an efficient way of showing your view of something... Take the above for example... "Micro$oft" shows that I think Microsoft is a money hungry Corp., "Winblows" shows that I think Windows is a lame product, "00" is just and insult toward Micro$oft about how technically awful so many of their products are...
Re:Linux as a Gaming Platform (Score:1)
Here's a clue: Linux doesn't need anonymous asshole flamers.
I guess that's not very nice either... but you were the first to be hostile
Re:3d FPS shooters and Free software community (Score:1)
Re:Misplaced hype (Score:1)
Re:Great, Just What We Need (Score:1)
Interesting... But Crystal Space even more so (Score:2)
Re:Thoughts on Open Source multi-player games.... (Score:1)
I can understand distributed.net not releasing their source, because they're trying to conduct a fair and honest competition. They also have a lot more talent that they've taken aboard that are interested in the project. Chances are, you're not going to get that kind of help right away.
Dodger_
Dodger_
Re:Count me in! (Score:1)
Re:Where's the Code? (Score:1)
Re:Time City not Slashdot Worthy (Score:1)