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Brazil Bans Doom, Duke Nukem and 4 Other Games 286

CaptainCarrot writes "This story at Yahoo has the details. Apparently the police there think that some nutcase who went on a shooting spree in Sao Paulo last month was copying a scene from Duke Nukem. That he was also a coke fiend seems to be besides the point. "
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Brazil Bans Doom, Duke Nukem and 4 Other Games

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  • I just think that this blaming of games for peoples actions in getting way out of control. I'm gonna go play some smash brothers. Does that mean I feel like taking a hammer to my best friend? Blame the game! It's not my fault!; I'm being influenced by pixels and colors.. It seems the world is in a sad state when it can blame computer games for peoples actions.

    Anyway thats enough 2 cents from me for a while. I feel like playing some quake and then going out and commiting random acts of crime. When I get caught I will blame it on quake. Or plead insanity.. whichever I can get away with
  • OK, DOOM is really really bad, but Quake, Quake II, Quake III, Daikatana (did that ever get released?), Unreal, and who knows how many other games are perfectly OK? What the hell?!?!? At least they could try to be consistent with their censorship.

    However, I've got to admit it, Blood is a very violent game. If you ever get a chance, play it. :) If you like dark comedies and FPS, you'll probably like Blood. The literary references are great, and there really is a lot of humor throughout the game. Also, the continuity between levels is better than any FPS I've seen before or since.
  • Wow!, I guess authorities must get up to date with video games.
    I wonder how many copies of these games are still sold. Even en Brazil this games are really oldies.
    The measure seems to match the age of the games: really outdated.
    At least that leaves us about 4 years of Q3 to play before they ban it.

    No, I don't like sigs
  • Hell, he was most likely just frustrated with those crappy DN controls; I sure feel more aggravated having to deal with that wretched excuse of a game. Another fine example of your tax money at work.
  • The only thing lamer than a rehashed game with more 3D eye candy and higher system requirements is a ban on them. Darwinism works here -- eventually people are going to get sick of playing Wolfen^H^H^H^H^H^H Quake (and its pretenders) on their own -- we needn't extend that period by adding attractive taboos...

    Interesting, this was posted as game news, not as a censorship article...

  • by jhughes ( 85890 ) on Friday December 17, 1999 @10:26PM (#1464078) Homepage
    > However, this is only a version of the >prosecution, which also stated that Meira had >traces of cocaine in his blood and had in the > >past been treated for stress-related problems.

    When I was in high school, some kid in a nearby town slammed his car into building, killing himself. There was a note about how all his hard work had been for naught and all that sort of stuff and that's why he decieded to take his own life. When the police interviewed his friends they learned that in a recent game of Dungeons and Dragons, his character who he had worked on for nearly a year had fallen victim to a fatal curse or something like that.

    When they interviewed other people they learned a injury was forcing him to miss out on his Senior year of high school football, and his girlfriend had just left him.

    Guess which one that Media picked up on and blamed? Being in a town just a short ways away, we felt the impact a lot. I play RPGs a lot and during this time I was insulted a few times and even talked to by teachers at school, didn't like being called a satanist much either.

    Almost all of the people who spoke to me had read the original news report which stated that D&D possibly caused this sucide run, very very few people read the later articles which started to point towards his other, real world problems.

    Point I'm trying to make (in a long round about way and what is probably beaten to the ground by now:)) is this: how many of these cases where Video games have been blamed initially have actually turned out to be "not the whole story"?

    I think there's just a whole idea of media and people as a whole who just run to the first thing they see and say "That's the reason!!"

    Sorry for the ramble :) 3am on 4 hours of sleep :)
  • The article refers to the game "Armageddon", which I have never heard of. The description sounds a lot like Carmageddon... Always a good time!
  • The list of the games banned are: Doom, Mortal Kombat, Requiem, Blood, Postal and Duke Nukem. Personally speaking, I've played 4 of these (Doom, MK, DN, and Postal). I don't know about the other two, but these are rather old games. Is Brazil's game market just behind the times and these games are the new ones there, or are they just banning the violent games that this man had in his possession?

    One error I noticed in the story...Brazil had previously banned the car racing game "Carmaggedon" which the article refers to as "Armageddon"

    One final note...I think this too shall pass. Does anyone besides me remember about 9 or 10 years ago, when Dungeons & Dragons was all over the news because some kids had used a sword to kill one of their neighbors and they played D&D all the time? This same type of hysteria and irrational attacks that focus on video games now focused on D&D then. Quite a few schools banned it from being played. Guess what? D&D is still here. 10 years from now, violent video games will still be here, and the level of detail will be incredible. Check here [bungie.com] if you want to see what level of realism video games will be attaining next summer.

    This hysteria shall pass, and shall come again some other time. Kinda like Halley's comet, only more frequent and quite a bit more annoying.

  • So I was runnin around fraggin people and I saw this story and I just had to put my gun down. I said "Yo, what the !@#$^&? That's FUBAR, they have gone AWAL! Somene call the MPs to get those crazy Brazilians outta here!" After this I picked my BFG back up and started killing my enemies.

    Did you notice how that was, like, FICTION?! HELLO! Wake up you Brazilian freaks! I mean aren't you the ones doing those military experiments on people and stuff? Sheesh!
  • id is going to be fucking pissed!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    see the thing about this is they get finally get around to banning the game once it's no longer "cool" so I assume it's not a really big deal anymore.. And with the fine.. who the hell still sells duke3d and doom!
  • Sigh. It makes me so mad to see that people can blame everything but the system. "Hey, not everybody is a maniac running around shooting people. What could have caused this person to go on a killing spree? Hmm." Then insert your usual scapegoat reason. TV, movies, video games.

    Maybe it's because mommy and daddy didn't raise this individual correctly.

    But, what does logic have to do with it?
  • I have to add, anyone who plays the same character for a year (as if that weren't stupid enough), then allows some jerk DM kill it off with a stupid curse needs to go and buy a pair a boots to kick the DM in the nuts.

    It's more fun if you switch characters often anyway. Once you've already got the perfect character, what's the point?
  • by Anonymous Coward

    You know, it's really hard to kill three people and wound eight with an automatic handgun if automatic handguns are illegal.

    Let's how long it takes for the gun nuts in the audience to moderate this down.

  • by jquiroga ( 94119 ) on Friday December 17, 1999 @10:44PM (#1464090)
    From The Economist, 'Gun Law in Brazil' (19-Jun-1999):

    When gunmen attacked a bar on the southern outskirts of Sao Paulo last weekend, killing four women and three men in a hail of bullets, perhaps the most terrifying feature of the incident was its sheer normality. It was Sao Paulo's 28th multiple shooting so far this year, and such carnage is a familiar weekend event in several other Brazilian cities.


    The Justice Ministry estimates that the country's 160m people hold perhaps 20m guns, of which only 1.5m are registered. According to a recent United Nations report, 88% of murders in Brazil are committed with firearms, a higher figure than in any other country.

    Duke Nukem is virtual. If you live in Brazil, you play the game for real.

  • He felt like kicking ass and chewing bubble gum...
    But he was alll outta gum!

    Kicking ass works just as well. :)
  • Got any Pokemon cards?

    No, But we sure do have a bunch of cabbage patch dolls!

  • Yeah, exactly. Anyone who wants it already has it, or can get it ReallyEasily.

    When I heard about Columbine, I couldn't stop thinking about what kind of kid was still playing Doom after all this time.. I thought maybe they were playing something more recent like Quake, and the reporters managed to over-generalize FPS's as Doom. Can anyone confirm that they were actually playing Doom, and if so, what version (1 or 2)?
  • ... bring in the Katz. (time for sleep)
  • I am constantly growing tired of hearing about "such-and-such" caused "so-and-so" to do "this-horrible-deed". When are people going to be held responsible for their actions? Blaming sick people's actions on anything from games, to TV, to (even our beloved friend) the internet has been a nice skapegoat for the press and people to say "Well, I'll be sure to look out for that." I'm sure that whoever that man was, he would have done the same thing regardless of whether he had played alot of duke nukem or doom, etc, etc. Plainly, this man was sick.. Instead of governments, parents and societies blaming people's actions on things that (i beleive) have no relevent baring on their own "free-will" actions, other steps should be taken. The Brazialian governemt has wasted time, money and manpower on banning things that are just going to become easily attainable through the internet anyway. Why not instead do they invest more time, money and manpower into finding ways to help people who are afflicted with these sorts of mental illnesses. I remember when Ice T's "Copkiller" album was released, and it was banned through-out a large portion of North America.. Any police shootings that happened afterward were then blamed because the shooter "had an Ice-T album." Wake up. People do horrible things because they want to, not because they see or hear them in games, TV music, etc.
  • video games - alledged pyschological effect
    drugs - documented chemical effect

    See the difference?
  • You know, it's really hard to kill three people and wound eight with an automatic handgun if murder is illegal

    Wait a minute, they already made murder illegal. I guess it didn't work.
  • Perhaps it has something to do with the little trait many drugs have of altering the chemical balance of the mind?

    If you shove a video game up your nose, I doubt it'd be good for you either.

    - Jeff A. Campbell
    - VelociNews (http://www.velocinews.com [velocinews.com])
  • My first reaction was: those fucking brazilians are stupid, who cares about them. Then it occurred to me that a few hours ago my own Quebec government had banned smoking in the work place... for similar reasons. Smoking's bad for you vs violent games are bad for you... where's the difference?

    Moral of the story: It can happen to anyone.
  • Lets see,about a thousand different times and places.Computers are just a good scapegoat nowdays.chat on 'em if you want,but if anything goes wrong no matter what it is,blame it on a computer.Y2K hasn't been a huge help either...
  • I don't know if it's exactly an error, but somehow saying that Postal "converts the player into a stressed-out clerk who kills his office colleagues." seems a big far-fetched. Heck, half the gamers in America would have become stressed out postal clerks by now...

  • Yeah, I still play it (using Zdoom.) Even though I have Quake 1 and 2, and Unreal tournament, Doom still has unique qualities and a level of fun equal to or greater than the new games. Plus, it's cheap and it will run on almost anything.
  • Banning theese games seems like a gross over reaction, the games are certainly not the real question here. However, the games reflect, in some way, the society as a whole, and that should be bothersome..

    I haven't played games for a while (Quake II proably the most recent), and one have to wonder - where is the fun in games like Postal? It seems that fast 3D games have become synonyms for fast gory violent games. Seems unessesary to me.

    (Go Tetris! Go Boulder Dash! Go nibbles!) ;-)

    // Simon
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Make no mistake about it. Games do influence kids in a major way. Warcraft, for example, can lead kids down a corrupt path of illegal logging, which is a very big concern in Brazil. And do we really want our young fishermen to have unrealistic expectations of fish sizes when they delve into games like Trophy Bass Fishing?
  • were going to ban a video game because it "trains" people for violence or some such I would ban Rogue Spear. I jump back in my seat when I get nailed in that game (due in part to my speakers turned to maximum). The realism of Rogue Spear train people for tactical situations alot more than Quake with its rocket jumping and plasma guns. Video games are the LAST reason people kill other people unless you're a fscking camper out on the up on the quad damage platform. I suppose video games are being banned because coke and selective fire weapons have already been banned. Or so it goes.
  • by LocalYokel ( 85558 ) on Friday December 17, 1999 @11:37PM (#1464112) Homepage Journal
    Robin, would you like something to wash down that foot? The Brazilian government chose to make violent video games the scapegoat -- you made it cocaine.

    People like to draw conclusions that match their personal convictions and blame the problem on something else. If you like violent games, you blame cocaine, and vice versa. Personally, I think it's got everything to do with boredom, watching overdubbed American sitcoms on Brazilian TV. We'll never REALLY know why it happened -- trying to find the WHY and pointing the finger elsewhere isn't going to do any good.

    Speaking of futile quests to find meaning in things that have none, I feel another JonKatz article coming on...
  • I might agree with you, except that I strongly object to your implicit insults towards gays and men with "small" penises. *that* was uncalled for, but you are right that Quebec is one of the more braindamaged provinces of Canada - I live here.

    I might also add that I'm personally quite happy about the non-smoking laws as I quite hate cigarette/cigar smoke.
  • No, Daikatana did not ever get released. It probably will never get released, seeing as that egotistical prick Romero is heading up the efforts. It's already using outdated technology. The game will be lame.

  • Why must such tragic things such as this be blamed on video games? It seems even more common now, with the Columbine situation, than in the past. I'm assuming the media and governments need some place to put the blame, rather than themselves, and video games seemed to meet the criteria. I've yet to come across a game that will get me so worked up and enraged, that I will decide to go on a shooting spree in public. Also, one question in regards to the article, since when was DOOM published by 3D Realms? I thought GT Interactive did the old id publishing... w3rd.
  • by drix ( 4602 )
    Well.. nevermind. Looks like they might have actually completed the game. Two years behind schedule.

  • by Effugas ( 2378 ) on Friday December 17, 1999 @11:45PM (#1464117) Homepage
    It is not so much that we fear what we do not understand, as that we scapegoat what we do not enjoy. That which may be scapegoated may be suppressed; that which we enjoy ourselves we refuse to live without.

    A recent poster mentioned a case in which, faced with the choice of blaming a suicide upon either a high school breakup, a sudden injury ending a football career, or a loss of a Dungeons and Dragons character, the media placed blame firmly upon the latter.

    One can complain about the unfairness, or one can analyze it to determine the source of its absurdity in utterly plain terms.

    Suppose, for a moment, that the media had chosen to scapegoat the breakup as the cause of the suicide. Immediate result--teen relationships deemed dangerous, parents advised to keep close watch on their out-of-control youth...but it doesn't work, because parents both remember their own, non-suicidal relationships and directly experience the estrangement caused if they meddle in teen relationships. Similarly, the many teens that had survived and moved on after a breakup realize the inaccuracy of blaming all breakups for the results of one breakup, and wouldn't care what their parents said anyway.

    What's interesting, is while all parties involved in this scenario could *understand* the suicide in terms of a breakup, it's an ineffective scapegoat, and is thus curiously unsatisfying. If you can't suppress anything, the theory goes, you haven't done anything. It Could Happen Again.

    What's really sad is that it's a direct consequence of being unable to put a dollar value on life! After all, if you absolutely *have* to do something, and you're not willing to take "acceptable losses" on the life side, you have to do something: Find non-life "acceptable losses" that are, of course, as little of a loss to you as possible. Teen dating is just too familiar to eliminate, so it's unsatisfying to blame.

    And what of the two remaining options--football and D&D? Football's an American tradition. Only satanic freaks play D&D(note the distinct lack of understanding). Guess which makes the better Acceptable Loss.

    And the real tragedy? Isolation is the real killer, but nobody wants to be forced to incur the "acceptable loss" of being friends with the isolated.

    Yours Truly,

    Dan Kaminsky
    DoxPara Research
  • Not to be rude, but can someone give the short version of this so that I can figure out what the fuck he's talking about?

    As far as I can see this is just another weakly disguised attempt to write something that seems intelligible just to gain more Karma.

    (and yes, feel free to moderate this down)
  • Well, banning those games is one sure way to make them more popular. Speaking for myself, anything that is made illegal by a bunch of arrogant, spineless, and simple-minded politicians is something that I'm going to try, and definitely something that I'm going to support.

    How long do you suppose it'll be before there's sites to download these games all over Brazil? If they try to shut down those sites, how hard do you suppose it will be to find a place in the US or elsewhere else to make the games freely available?

    Prohibition does not work! It failed in the US against alcohol, it's failing against marijuana everywhere in the world, and it will fail against this, as well. Unfortunately, the people that run for office are rarely of a calibre that can learn from history, and almost invariably doomed (sorry for the pun) to repeat it.
  • Cocaine is their number 1 cash crop. Can't crack down on the guys who grow that stuff. 'Sides which they kind of run the place. And shoot you if you try to crack down on them. So blame the video games. Much safer. No one was ever dragged from their car and shot execution style by a pissed off video game cartel.
  • Short version:


    Kid kills himself. Depressed for three reasons:

    1) Lost his GF
    2) Lost his Football Playability
    3) Lost his D&D

    Life is of absolute value, so you NEED to eliminate/suppress/change the way things are so that the infinitely valued Life isn't lost again.


    Which something gets changed to defend the absolute value of Life?


    That which will cause the least suffering by its suppression(per influential / popular person), or is least understood by the general population, will be the activity suppressed.

    Everyone understands love. (Or, more accurately, everyone fails to understand it in a similar manner.)

    Everybody loves football.

    Ah! But what the fuck is that D&D shit? Blame it, and you're not isolating a significant portion of the population BUT you've done something to defend the absolute value of Life.

    Karma dude--go ahead, email me privately. I usually don't go off all philosophical, but if I do, I do generally have a point I'm trying to make. I spent about four years studying Locke etc., so that's why I'll end up speaking like 'em.

    Feel free to shoot me if I ever start impersonating Kant.

    (Seriously. Contact me. I'm sure you have more to talk about than how Karma sucks ;-)

    Yours Truly,

    Dan Kaminsky
    DoxPara Research
  • I noticed the above was moderated down. Let me say this: I WILL NEVER SAY WHAT THE MODERATORS WANT ME TO SAY. I will speak my own mind and not give a FUCK for what moderators think.
  • by Captain Zion ( 33522 ) on Saturday December 18, 1999 @12:56AM (#1464132)
    I live in Brazil, and this is just another case of authorities doing something stupid just to calm down the media. It happens all the time.

    The "theatre massacre" had an enormous repercussion in Brazilian media. The first move from the ministry was to restrict "The Fight Club" to sessions after 10PM and to adults only. Not a good deal IMHO -- the shooter is an adult, and it happened after 10PM anyway! Besides, the shooter declared that he didn't watch the movie before acting. What if it happened in Disney's "Tarzan", and if the guy was addicted to Civ or Tetris? Would they ban that too?

    Last month a bank inside my school was robbed. The day after, they checked everyone's badges to enter the school. What's the idea? Would the bank robbers return using bad badges or something?

    There's a clear difference between a guy that is already a psycho and happen to have certain (very popular) games in his computer, and all the rest of game players. How many of you slashdot readers have played Doom or DN and went to the streets exploding barrels and shooting people?

    Brazil is a funny place indeed.

  • by jquiroga ( 94119 ) on Saturday December 18, 1999 @01:07AM (#1464135)
    Here you can find a human rights report from the Department of State. It's not pretty at all.

    This excerpt is downright scaring:

    The shooting of two suspected bank robbers by a police officer in Rio de Janeiro, recorded on video tape and broadcast in its entirety on the national evening news, graphically illustrated the commonplace use of lethal force by the police and the public's tolerant attitude toward such practices. On August 5, a uniformed police officer on duty in a busy public square in the Ipanema neighborhood of Rio de Janeiro, alerted by a bystander, approached two men on a parked motorcycle who were suspected of just having robbed a local bank. The uniformed policeman drew his gun and approached the two men. As he came close enough to question them, he also attempted to take a gun from one suspect who then attempted to draw the gun himself. Without further warning, the policeman shot both suspects in the head at point blank range in succession and fired four more times as the suspects lay on the ground. The initial intense media coverage of the incident focused mostly on the positive public response to the policeman's actions. His superiors decorated him for bravery. Some media and human rights observers questioned the appropriateness of the officer's action, his lack of training and preparation to deal with such an incident, and his use of lethal force in a crowded public area.

    http://www.usis.usemb.se/human /human1998/brazil.html [usemb.se]
  • Basicly, he's just saying that whatever the media deems responsible for tragedy becomes a new public enemy. The media chooses the reason most "abnormal" reason, and everyone jumps on (us vs them).

    Pretty much correct, except you hit on something I forgot to mention:

    When designing an Us vs. Them conflict, you want as much of your audience as possible to be the "Us", lest you lose the respect of an excessive number of your readers/viewers/developers because you just called them..."Them".

    It's not just the media. It's basic social behavior.

    We need a patch...

    Yours Truly,

    Dan Kaminsky
    DoxPara Research
  • Some guy starts shooting people in the street, with one of those cool nerf guns. After a while he's arrested, and the officer sits him down.

    Officer: Why did you do it?

    Dude: Nerf Arena Blast made me do it.

  • > Did you notice how that was, like, FICTION?!
    > HELLO! Wake up you Brazilian freaks! I mean aren't you the ones doing those military experiments on people and stuff?

    It's very simple: The Brazilian police and military hates competition.
  • Well, you know, to some (both people and legislators), gun control is using both hands to hold it.
  • Brazil is one depraved country and Sao Paula is truly one of the most evil places on Earth. Apart from all the drug abuse that is.

    Homeless orphaned children are routinely gunned down by policemen (the city authorities treat them as a pest). Child prostitution is rife - including children as young as nine or ten years of age. And young men pay plastic surgeons to mutilate them, turning them into "ladyboys" so they can earn more money as prostitutes.

    It seems as if the whole country has adopted Rimbaud's nihilism: Nothing is forbidden, everything is permitted. The ultimate in liberalism. Some of you may recognise similarities to the Netherlands (particularly Amsterdam).

    The people of that country have seriously lost their way and now their society bears many of the hallmarks some of us associate with hell itself. Will the West go the same way? Will we also, in the name of tolerance and political correctness, relinquish the right to judge others for their behaviour and/or morals?

    The police and courts in Brazil will likely jump on game playing because it's practiced by too narrow a section of the population over there to have gained any political protection. Drugs and child prostitution, OTOH, are probably secretly encouraged by their corrupt politicians who derive both revenue and venal pleasure frm both.

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • That's a very Reagan-esque opinion.
    We here in the UK have very strict gun control and a mulit-party democracy that is more varied and effective than that of the USA.

    Guess what? Hardly anyone gets shot here, and those who do are usually just bigh-time drug dealers and gangsters.

    One nutter went ape in a church recently with a samurai sword though.

    People were critically injured, but no one died.
    What if he'd been able to walk into a shop and buy a gun?

    Yes, we have police armed response units, and if someone in the congregation had had a gun too, yadda yadda etc
    .. but, if people don't carry guns, they can't just shoot someone who looked at them the wrong way or "called their pint a poof". Usually, the worst that comes of it is a bloody nose.

    Free, unregulated possession of guns does not a democracy make. It makes for suspicion, fear and opression of one's fellow human being.
  • Short version:


    Kid kills himself. Depressed for three reasons:

    1) Lost his GF
    2) Lost his Football Playability
    3) Lost his D&D

    There is also point 0 which has been missed, that is that the direct reason for the victims death was that they were driving a motor vehicle at the time.
  • ...never accomplish through analysis of a situation what you can cover up by a good knee-jerk reaction.
  • There is also point 0 which has been missed, that is that the direct reason for the victims death was that they were driving a motor vehicle at the time.

    Ah, but what are you gonna do, ban driving?

    Now smoking's another story...lots of people don't smoke, go ban that...

    Yours Truly,

    Dan Kaminsky
    DoxPara Research
  • "I live... Again..." Puts a smile on my face every time... :)

    From yahoo's story : "Duke Nukem and Doom have been designed by 3D Realms Co., Blood was made by GT Interactive Software Corp , Mortal Kombat was produced by Midway Games Inc , and Postal -- by Ripcord."

    I thought DOOM was designed by Id software?
  • If this is really true, someone hand me a BFG and I'll show 'em all. ha ha.

    The above post was humorous... video games do not cause people to kill, perhaps the reverse is true, violent people are attracted to violent video games, thus they already possessed the desire before playing the game.

    Get a clue brazil or the next time i'm playing x-pilot I'll make sure to bomb the hell out of your country.

  • by urkidnme ( 114492 ) on Saturday December 18, 1999 @02:12AM (#1464154)
    Maybe they just banned these to quiet down the folks who must have something "external" to blame. Forcing retailers to remove these from the shelves probably didn't make many retailers too upset. They didn't make them do anything with Quake II, Quake III, Rainbow Six, Unreal, etc... This way, the gov't was able to do what gov'ts are good at. Satisfy the whining ignorant masses without upsetting the people with the bucks.
  • The police and justice here (I live in Sao Paulo - Brazil) are "TWO PIECES OF S**T", and if a crazy guy goes to a theater (the movie was Fight Club) with a Machine Gun and shoot lots of people, they have to do something just to "show" they're doing something. So what would be better than banning some old famous games they found at killer's house? (hey! it'll put then on TV!) If they try to ban some "new games" they'll make the big stores unhappy (who wants this ?).

    In fact banning games will not stop people playing them. About 80% of the games here are pirated copies. Here, you easily can buy an "unoffical" game CD for R$10-R$15 (US$5-7) while the offical one may cost R$100 or more (US$50+)

    PS.: when I say crazy guy I really means CRAZY (NUTS, BRAIN DAMAGED). The guy was under psycho treatment.

    PS1: I don't think it's cool to buy or sell pirated games.
    sorry about my poor spelling
  • <rant>
    I'm Brazilian. I even live in São Paulo. I submitted this the day it happened. I was rejected. Now that it's old news, it gets posted.

    I used to trust /. to inform me. Guess it's time to get on with my plan of a news site, now that I have the server.

    No, no comments on the story. I even have some, but I'm too disappointed to remember them.

  • Oh, actually I do have an update. They later added a lot of other games to the list, including Quake. Nice thing to do on the week before Xmas.
  • Anyone remember Bed Bugs - for the C64 I think.
  • by KGBear ( 71109 ) on Saturday December 18, 1999 @03:37AM (#1464160) Homepage
    I live in Sao Paulo - Brasil; I see some of my countrymen have already replied to this but I wish to clarify a few things:
    1. The version of Carmageddon sold in Brazil is called "Armagedon", because the pun makes no sense in Portuguese. "Carmageddon" means absolutely nothing while Armagedon is a perfectly valid Portuguese word. Also, this game is from the times when companies still tried to translate game titles - nowadays they don't bother anymore partly because time time to market is everything and partly because when the games are officialy released here people have been playing them for a while, either downloading from the 'net or ordering a copy from some American Internet shop. Some game fans don't wait for the 2-3 monthes it takes to translate all the dialogs, user manual, etc.
    2. Some kinds of shooting are indeed (and sadly) common in the streets of Sao Paulo, but they're usually related to gang fights, "vigilantes" and organized crime. This case caught everyone's attention because the perpetrator is a med student with no involvement with those underworlds.
    3. Coke is not Brasil's #1 cash crop. Although we are an important part of the route drug follows to reach the US and Europe, it's actually grown in the bordering countries of Bolivia and Colombia. I also wish to remind you that the only reason the drug is grown and follows this route is because people at its destination will buy it.
    4. The weapon used is actually illegal here, which doesn't make it impossible to buy from black markets. Just like cocaine is illegal in the US, by the way.
    5. Yes, this ruling was made just to show the government is doing something, it's just a media stunt. Yes, it will probably be overruled by a superior court.
    6. Meira was not immobilized by guards while reloading, he was overtaken by the moviegoers when he ran out of amo. This is causing some protests against the mall administration.
    7. Finally, and more to the subject: all kinds of explanations were ventured by the media. One of the more stupid I've seen is he did it to emulate so many similar cases happening in the US, a kind of "wish to be in the 1st world". Games, drugs, everything is to blame. The fact the he had just interrupted drug treatment for his mental condition - against medical advice - was barely reported.

    Whew. Sorry for the long post...
  • Of course this is a ridiculous over-reaction, and misguided as well as misapplied. Entirely in keeping with Brazil's governence-by-overreaction (there's an interesting situation regarding the issuance of travel visas that is largely a consequence of this attitude.)

    However, let's put things in perspective - Brazil would never ban a game for nudity or sexual depictions. As wrong as this action is, it should be compared with American tolerance - even mainstream celebration - of hardcore violence, couple with their puritanical fear of sexuality (as if people aren't supposed to be sexual before the age 21!) Despite the wrongheadedness of the approach, I think Brazil has its priorities right.

    Coincidentally enough, I'm in Rio do Janeiro at the moment.

  • by Molina the Bofh ( 99621 ) on Saturday December 18, 1999 @04:13AM (#1464164) Homepage
    >Is Brazil's game market just behind the times and these games are the new ones there,
    > or are they just banning the violent games that this man had in his possession?

    I live in Brazil, and we are not so behind the times. Games and movies usually arrive here about one or two monthes after being released in US.

    What I believe is that these may be the only games some judge or other bureaucrat may have heard of.

    And frankly speaking, I think it's ridiculous to ban these games!! First of all there are much more realistic and violent games (such as Half-life), where you kill persons, not only monsters, wich, I guess, makes a huge difference from the psychological point of view. In Duken Nuken you kill monsters, instead of people !

    Another thing: I read here in Slashdot they said the sicko was being treated for stress. That's not true. He was being treated for schizophrenia, and his doctor told his family he should not live unattended. But they left him living alone.

    And this case had so much repercussion in the press because it was the first time in Brazil a psycho goes to a public place and starts shooting people without having a reason.
  • Of course you has been living in Brazil and seeing all of that in the streets everyday, right?

    Give me a break. I live in Brazil and I can assure you that where I'm living is a lovely place.

    I went a few times to the USA, and I was really afrait of all the violence I could see on the streets.

    The americans are very funny, they are quick to complain about other countries and can't accept they have they own problems!

    If they at least allowed us to sell some of our best industrial goods to them to allow us get some dollars to pay our debts with IMF... It's hard to get enough dollars selling only commodities, and that way we can't give better conditions to our people.
  • Why are you asking for confirmation of your questions? Either you know why you think and believe the way you do or you are just parroting something taught by others. Consensus doesn't mean correct.

    The theme presented in the article is that some Brazilian officials believe that the games had some influence on the man. That Brazilian officials were most probably ( I can't know for sure ) motivated by their fear of the press. The people in the theater just want to know why some unstable freak was allowed to kill them without provocation.

    My belief is that different people have different weaknesses. This fellow may have had a weakness for believing that aliens were attacking Brazil and needed to be stopped. I know people that have had weaknesses for ladies other than their wives, alcohol, drugs and money. Some of them no longer have to worry about their wives ( or their houses, cars, etc..) or their old jobs. Just because one person has a weakness dosen't mean that everyone has the same problem.

    Your question: "However, will someone admit that by playing something like Quake, the player's aim in reality may be improved?"

    This question probably seems valid if someone hasn't fired a gun. Its more like assuming that someone who has played TombRaider must be able to swim because Lara goes swimming in each game. Or that someone must be able to ride a bicycle because they watched re-runs of The Brady Bunch(tm) or be able to play basketball because they are tall.

    Moving a dot around and clicking a mouse button aren't the same thing as firing a real weapon. The games help some people to improve their hand & eye coordination.

    And about your "Can we keep saying that computer games, or violent movies, or X are 100% completely innocent? How about 99.99% innocent?" questions.

    How can a game be guilty or innocent? If a book describes a bank robbery, is the book guilty of something? A person can be guilty or innocent but not an object. If this were not the case, then my car would be the one guilty of speeding, not me.

    People make choices everyday. I usually choose between lunch choices, but I have never chosen to kill someone. Some people have chosen to take the life of another person. The killer made that choice, it didn't just happen without any responsibility.
  • by Roblimo ( 357 ) on Saturday December 18, 1999 @04:22AM (#1464168) Homepage Journal
    Excuse me. Slashdot reader "Captain Carrot" wrote that. The words you see in a Slashdot article in italics, surrounded by quotation marks, are verbatim from the reader who submitted the story.

    Sometimes I agree with what a reader says in a submission, sometimes I don't. In this case, I think Captain Carrot made a valid point: that the Brazilian government was blaming video games for violence done by a person who had other influences in his life that were at least as likely to have caused him to start shooting strangers as game playing. Like cocaine use, for example. Or perhaps it was bad American sitcoms, as you suggested. ;\)

    If our friend Captain Carrot had chosen to say, "It's about time some government had the guts to ban some of the violence-spawning computer games that Satan has unleashed on society. Too bad it was Brazil, not the U.S., that took this courageous moral stand," I probably would have run that verbatim, just as I ran the comments he did make - and I would have taken plenty of heat for letting someone express an unpopular opinion. (Or at least an opinion that is unpopular among Slashdot readers, who are not exactly a representative sample of the world's population.)

    Please try to remember, when you read Slashdot, that many/most of the opinions you see are those of other readers, that the Slashdot editor who posted them may not agree with them, and that any words written by a Slashdot author or editor are always clearly separated from those of the reader who submitted a given story.

    As far as Katz, his take on this *would* be interesting, wouldn't it? But he chooses his own topics, so we'll just have to wait and see if he decides to pick up on this one.

    - Robin

  • > I mean aren't you the ones doing those military experiments on people and stuff? Sheesh!

    Where did you get this???

    Oh, and are you able to point me where Brazil is in the World Map? I'm just curious...
  • We here in the UK have very strict gun control and a mulit-party democracy that is more varied and effective than that of the USA.

    Guess what? Hardly anyone gets shot here, and those who do are usually just bigh-time drug dealers and gangsters.

    One nutter went ape in a church recently with a samurai sword though.

    i dont like this implication much - it sounds to me like it's condoning a ban on samurai swords, for instance.
    (which was the immediate reaction of the media upon the release of this story, of course *sigh*)

    if he hadn't been able to get a samurai sword, he'd have probably used a cleaver, kitchen knife, giant toothpick, whatever. the sword isn't the problem, it didn't imbue him with a demonic possession that caused him to go out ans alughter people. the basic of the situation is, that he was nutso.

    i think all this media/government action scapegoating anything vaguelly "unusual" about the crime (role playing games, weaponry, being a 'goth', playing video games, etc) is essentially a refusal to acknowledge the underlying problem of violence and hatred.

    in an ideal world, there could be guns and swords and violent video games everywhere, but no-one would want to kill each other.

    at the other extreme, where anything even vaguelly sharp is hidden away... so what, people will club each other to death with dead puppies if they want to.

    i'm ambivalent about the effects of exposing impressionable young children to violence, whether it be video games, tv programs, or what have you. i'd say desensitisation is an issue. but any rational adult who knows right from wrong can differentiate between the two. anyone who's had kids can probably testify you have to teach them that hitting people is wrong, as they'll likely try it at some point.

    but getting back on topic for a moment (ha), while violent video games should be kept away from very young, impressionable minds, anyone who is able to differentiate reality from fantasy should be allowed to do so.

    ObTechnology: as Doom was released to shareware, would downloading it in brazil be considered an offence, or does the ban only cover its *sale*?


  • Yes, Sao Paulo is becoming a very dangerous place. The population there is very high and the majority of it is poor people.
    Sao Paulo is the richest place in Brazil too, and that contradiction is amazing!
    We people here in Brazil should stop trying to copy the American capitalism and develop better social protections like some countries in Europe. That's probably the only way to solve the "civil war" you can find in Sao Paulo.
    PS: Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro are places with a lot of social problems because of their sizes. Please don't try to generalize it to Brazil like you did.
  • Oh, come on now, this "political correct" language has gone too far! According to what I read in the news, that guy had been interned at a mental hospital for treatment of schizophrenic paranoia. He had delusional persecution ideas. He was released because there are laws in Brazil saying that a person who has not commited any crime cannot be held at a mental hospital against his or his family's wishes.

    Well, a wacko is a wacko, he had been diagnosed by psychiatrists as a wacko. If the law says he is not a wacko, just someone with a "different perspective", then the law has been proved wrong by this guy's actions.

    As for gun control, he was using a gun that is illegal in Brazil. However, that gun can be readily bought in some states in the USA, so it's not hard at all to get, just add the price of an air ticket to the USA. And don't think that outlawing the gun in all of the USA will help, if it can't be outlawed simultaneously in all the 165 (180? 195?) countries of the world, gun control will not work. The Brazilian police has caught drug dealers carrying made-in-USA Armalite M-16 rifles that, according to the serial numbers, had been used in Vietnam. How can you stop one of the poorest countries in the world from exporting its war booty for some badly needed cash?

    Just as drug control doesn't work. This guy had taken cocaine, which is illegal everywhere (except in the marxist guerrilla dominated regions of Colombia), but he was a fifth year medical student, with ample access to any kind of legal drug.

    So, what is the answer? Discrimination, of course, as in "the act of observing a difference". We should stop trying to treat everyone as equals. Everyone should have equal *opportunities*, but this does not imply equal *results*. You should have exactly the same chances as everyone else, but if you fuck-up, well, then fuck you.
  • from my story submissions page...

    1999-12-13 11:26:44 Another country jumps on banning bandwagon (articles,news) (rejected)

    wtf? My msg even posted the exact same damn url for the news story. this news is ~4 days old...

    and while i'm at it.. i hate a browser that auto-selects the submit button when you hit the return key by mistake (micro$oft pos...)

  • Not as long as some...

    1) At least the marketing idiots figured it out.

    2) I read the article and the student had only traces of the drug. That usally means "crashing" in the local street dialog. I am not a doctor, but I bet the side effect of such a condition is depression, which he was also treated for in the past.

    3&4) You are right. And the US government likes it that way. Keeps the police in business.

    all the rest) Here in the US most, if not all, of the children who shot up their schools were or had been treated for mental disorders of some kind. The media lets that little bit of information take the back seat of their, "promote gun bans, point the accusing finger at anything except the social engineering failure of the liberals", quote is mine.

    Don't think the games are getting off easy here, they are on probation until the congress gets conservative and now longer needs the money from the game industry. That my be a long time. -d

  • I have been at both cities. People in Medellin just take violence for granted, in São Paulo they are still trying to do something about it. But I have never seen barbed wire rolls ("concertina wire") above walls anywhere in Brazil, as I have seen in Los Angeles, New York, London, and Paris.
  • I have lived in Brazil for most of my life, and I see the opposite situation as you describe. Everything is regulated here, we have an acute lack of liberalism. What you have posted looks more like a description of West Hollywood CA, as seen by a National Enquirer writer.

    Remember, only bad news is news. A journalist can't expect to keep her job if she is sent to Rio de Janeiro and sends every week a report "everything is fine here, nothing remarkable is happening".
  • Actually,its not hard to kill and wound,were handguns illegal.
    This is what the foolish governments that disarmed
    their citizens are finding out.Criminals have no
    trouble aquiring weapons.Crime rates have RISEN.
    Its far easier to force your will on an unarmed
    citizen than one who may or may not be carrying.
    Think about that last sentence;was it meant from the point of view of a criminal or government,the
    point is,it doesnt matter.
    Video games arent going to be hard to aquire
    either.Sadly though when a child does aquire one,
    what will the penalty be?This is a country where
    in the capital,the police have no trouble hunting
    and killing homeless street children in order to
    keep them from begging,picking pockets and otherwise
    hassling tourists.What will be the penalty for
    owning/distibuting dangerous video games? I hate
    to think about it.
    When a single armed citizen could have brought this nut down,there was no need for so many to
    pay with their lives or health.
    So arm yourselves,educate yourselves and practice so you will be effective and an asset
    rather than a burden.
    When this FAD of political correctness and
    thoughtless liberalism fades(and it will)as
    generation x grows up and discovers reality,
    we can all breath a sigh of relief as we drop
    that Quake cd into the tray,knowing that we are free to do so.Free,because an armed citizenry
    has nothing to fear from its gov't. and gives its gov't.the only powers it will have.
    So think before you vote Socialist(democrat),do
    i want the freedom to play whatever games i choose?
    Shall i trust Big Brother to legislate more
    "politically correct"choices for me for the
    "common good".Remember,there is no such thing as
    "Social Justice",its just a PC way of saying
    socialism and socialism is just a convenient way
    for the few to rule and abuse the many.
  • What? Isn't Nothern Ireland part of the UK? I had been taught that the name of the country was "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Perhaps I need an update.

    Or are military grade weapons legal in the Ulster? That would explain it.

    You will pardon me if I pick on just one region of your country, but all the news I read in Brazil about the UK are:
    1) Adultery in the royal family;
    2) Homosexual cabinet ministers;
    3) Another massacre in Northern Ireland.
    Perhaps there is nothing else newsworthy in the UK, or maybe press coverage is not so balanced.
  • Hmmm, don't think so, it's rather easy, just point the gun and pull the trigger. Leaglity has nothing to do with it.
  • The answer to this is, it will not be enforced. Here in Brasil there are two laws. The one written by the govern and the one written by the people, and by people I am not talking about drug dealers or gangs or any type of criminal characther. The people here does not have knowledge of the laws, this is true even for police man.

    To understand Brasil you must understand that the real law here is the "Brasilian way" (to those that understand portuguese this is the "jeitinho Brasileiro"). If you are stoped by a policeman say with maryjuana, what happens? The policeman will terrorize you, but unless you're poor he will not touch you, he might take you to a station where they will terrorize you even more. Then you or your father you pay a beer to the policeman and you are free to go.

    I know this sounds off-topic, but it is realy on topic, most of the games here in brazil are actualy non-licensed (this maybe changing now due to terror inflicting campaings in the media like a mouse that the cord is handcuffing the hand that is using it). When the carmagedon, here named armagedon, was forbiden what actualy happend was that the game got more popular then he would ever be.

    Then why ban games or anything for that matter? Like many already mentioned before, it is simply a media stunt. And by the way yesterday I went to a mall near my home, and surprize I saw normal store selling quake II and many more violent games.

    "take the red pill and you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabitt hole goes"
  • Well, I think most of us on here can relate to your story in one way or another. I can remember when I was in college and a friend of mine set up a Heavy Metal show on the campus radio station (WPTS or something, it was the University of Pittsburgh). I interviewed him for a school magazine and one of the topics that came up was the court case in Colorado where parents of a teen that committed suicide were trying to blame either Iron Maiden or Judus Priest (anyone here that remembers please send details) because the kid liked to listen to that group.

    As usual, the fact that the teen had other major problems with his life was beside the point as far as the media was concerned, but it didn't escape me or my friend.

    And unless my memory fails me, it didn't escape the jury either.

    I'm also an anime fan, so I know that the first time someone does another of these massacre things and a bunch of anime tapes are found in his residence, the bad karma will be head straight in my direction!

  • Logic?!

    Nothing! Absolutely nothing!!

  • The human mind is something that no one realy knows how it works. Do I belive that this games, movies and the like that are violent could make a person go out and kill? Yes and no. This games could influence them as much as tetris or any other game for that matter. Any game have the ability to frustate a player, you probably already felt this way by one or two games. This is also true for movies, a movie could trigger something in one person that wouldn't exist in almost everyone else. A romantic movie could trigger a frustation of a viewer.

    Should tertris or the romantic movie be banned? My answer is no, since the danger is in the person and not the game or movie that trigered the reaction. Ban one triger and other thing would trigger the feeling is just a matter of time.

    "take the red pill and you stay in wonderland and I'll show you how deep the rabitt hole goes"
  • Hm. Just a few questions from somebody who's never been to Brazil...

    Are these handguns or long guns (esp. hunting arms)?

    Mostly in urban areas, or rural?

    A few owning many, or many owning few?

  • It seems that people around the world are following America's example of censoring/banning video games because of the "extreme" violence case. The fact of the matter is that there has been so much violence BEFORE real video games. All it is is people that are afraid and dont know what to do but they think that they DO know. At least people in Japan are enjoying their daily dose of violence blood and guts with REAL American-Like wrestling, Anime, and other television shows alike. They've accepted the fact that the shows arent harmful to the young people in their county and thats why it hasnt been banned. People in America and everywhere else that is trying to emulate america should open their eyes and minds and see that it really isnt video games that are screwing us, but the god damned system. Well, and Microsoft.
  • 2) I read the article and the student had only traces of the drug. That usally means "crashing" in the local street dialog. I am not a doctor, but I bet the side effect of such a condition is depression, which he was also treated for in the past.

    I used cocaine in my youth. Coming down is indeed really awful.

    3&4) You are right. And the US government likes it that way. Keeps the police in business.

    Yeah, and our jails filled to the brim.

    all the rest) Here in the US most, if not all, of the children who shot up their schools were or had been treated for mental disorders of some kind. The media lets that little bit of information take the back seat of their, "promote gun bans, point the accusing finger at anything except the social engineering failure of the liberals", quote is mine. Don't think the games are getting off easy here, they are on probation until the congress gets conservative and now longer needs the money from the game industry. That my be a long time. -d

    I don't profess to know the answer to the violence we are always hearing about. It could only be a function of the media looking for as much blood as they can to fill the 6:00PM news, since all studies I've read recently say violent crime is down. That aside, recent so-called conservative legislation is just as idiotic. Their solution to many issues is to legislate morality, religion and patriotism. Draconain drug laws, prayer in school, keeping kids ignorant about sexual functionality, banning flag burning, teaching creationism as if it were a science, etc. are some examples. Like I said, I don't have the answers, but I would be willing to bet that none of the above is a solution to any of the US's current ills.

  • So what if the Royals commit adultery?
    Who gives a toss about them anyway? Why should I pay taxes to keep them in the style to which they have been accoustomed (sp?), etc. and have them appear in the national media ranting about their personal political and religious beliefs.

    Homosexual cabinet ministers : as long as people who are having sex with each other are consenting adults, who cares if they fancy people of the same sex? Good luck to them is what I say, at least they're getting some!

    Northern Ireland : yes, part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and overrun by religious biggots, hatred and terrorist orgainisations, and they have guns, bombs, naseball bats, planks of wood with rusty nails in them, knives, elderly men who dress up funny and parade up and down the streets letting people of other religions and political convictions know how much they hate each other.
    Oh, don't forget the petrol bombs too...

    Your point?

    My point : this is _organised_ crime with international backing, big money, and centuries-old raging hatred, biggotry and prejudice.
  • "It is not the first time Brazil banned popular computer games for excessive violence. Some time ago, it prohibited sales of ``Armageddon'' car race game, where players rack up points by running over pedestrians rather than setting speed records."

    The game is called Carmageddon. The movie about the end of the world due to meteors was Armageddon. Although the end of the world is called The Apocalypse. Armageddon is the war to end all wars.

  • Are you free-basing?
  • I quote, "Duke Nukem and Doom have been designed by 3D Realms Co." Last time I checked, Doom was designed by id Software.

    Go figure.
  • These games are pretty much leading edge stuff in Brasil. Considering that computer hardware is at roughly four times the cost there than in the states, the typical gaming machine is a Pentium 200 with 32 MB of RAM, if people have gaming computers at all. Not everyone can just go to the local Comp-USA and pick up a PIII 600 for ~1500 USD.
  • Of course it doesn't. I'm just saying that they have the wherewithall to get hold of firearms (illegally), and that guns etc. are out of reach of most people. In otherwords you have to be pretty determined and go to great lengths to get a gun here, and there must be premeditation.

    You can't just have an argument with someone in the street who parked in your parking space, reach for a pistol and shoot him dead, unlike some other countries.
  • You know, the real problem here is society's lack of understanding of coke fiends. The coke fiends at the local high school are picked on mercilessly by the jocks, the girl scouts and the geeks. And then people wonder why they go on murderous rampages.

    Oh the horror of being a misunderstood cokefiend in our modern world.
  • My point is, first, only scandal and crime are seen as noteworthy by the press today. The overall crime I see here in Brazil is about as much as you see in the UK. I have been to the UK and I see just as much contrast between the normal attitudes of the British people compared to what is written about the UK in the international press, as the contrast between what really happens in Brazil compared to what is reported by the press in Europe. Second, gun control will work only to the point where there is no organized crime with international backing, big money, etc. We have rather strict gun control laws in Brazil, just as you have in the UK. The gun used by the man in this story is as illegal here as it is in the UK. (AFAIK, gun laws here are: private citizens may have hand guns up to 7.65mm caliber, short barrel guns - less than 50mm long - up to 9mm caliber, .22" caliber hunting rifles, or 28 gauge non-repeating shotguns. Carrying a loaded gun is allowed only by special permit, subject to comprovation of necessity, e.g. people who handle large amounts of cash, etc. Automatic guns are not allowed. All these guns may be bought only by previous registration and licensing by the police)
  • ... you wouldn't know what socialist was if it jumped up and bit you on the bottom.

    Your Democrats are fairly right-wing by everyone else's standards, and as for the Republicans, you might as well just call them the "American National Front" for want of something better.

    Socialist is a bit more left-wing than moderate right-wing liberalism. In fact over here, socialist is every bit as unpermissive as the extreme right.

    You have your liberals and your socialists all muddled up!
  • Thanks for that ;-)

    The news media tend to be very "selective" about what they report the world over it would seem.

  • There's a difference between the reality of "traces of cocaine in his blood" and the hype "he was also a coke fiend." Typical Slashdot overreaction, blaming irrelevant details for a deeper problem.

    Axes to grind? We don't have no stinkin' axes to grind!

  • You've gotta be fucking kidding. Who the hell would be ignorant enough to moderate this up. Earth To GreyFox... South America is a continent, There are many different countries in south america. Not every south american country uses cocaine for their primary cash crop, and not every south american country is run by drug cartels. Brazil is the world's largest producer and exporter of coffee and orange juice concentrate and second-largest exporter of soybeans. Those are their primary cash crops. Making claims about cocaine being their #1 cash crop is what leads a lot of foreigners to belive that racism and ignorance are the US's #1 exports.
  • That's fair comment. But my information is not from the newspapers, it came from an old schoolteacher of mine who spent a year living and working there.

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction
  • That's not true. The first time I ever played Quake III was at a LAN party outside of Buenos Aires. The folks I've met here have pretty up-to-date systems with good accelerators, nice big monitors, and the like.

    The one thing that gets me is that they ALL used two-button mice. I am SO used to 3-button wheel mice for Quake, I couldn't see using anything else.

    However, the retro "Best of ID" c.d. is popular out here for nostalgic reasons. That's probably the release that will get pinged by this.

  • Ooosp, I meant outside of Sao Paulo, not Buenos Aires.
  • Excuse me, "Anonymous Coward" (that really made sense now!), but since I don't know where are you from, let me say that we do have laws here, and media whores such as this judge that banned the games (no matter how old they are, I don't give a damn, for I believe this is a case of freedom in all of its ways, not of how elite the game is, or how cool are its graphics, ...). There are instances of courts here. Yes, just like in the US. You know what I mean. Your thought is the most common between people that know nothing about foreign affairs. You called Brazil "they", like if it was a common, public and voted decision by the brazilian people. No, it was not. Most of us do not agree with that. We are not against the freedom of speech, acts, and will. We have pollitical parties, ranging from liberals to communists. What I mean, after all, is that the decision was taken by a single person, with its (stupid, btw) thought that the killer was inspirated on duke nukem 3d (it could have been grand theft auto, if it was a car theft, who knows what these kind of people can think). The judge is very uninformed about the case and all he/she got was popularity. We were shocked with such a stupid, and, btw, unconstitucional decision, and will FIGHT these kind of acts. I hope you understood what the situation is.
  • Your point is well taken. However...

    The teacher I referred to went to Brazil for a year during his teacher training studies. Afterwards he also spent time in Ghana and Australia (he was training to be a geography teacher). He took my final year Geography class in high school. Believe me he was one of the best teachers I ever had, his classes were fascinating, he had hundreds of cool slides he'd taken himself, and press cuttings showing articles in the (serious) international press relating to the very things he'd seen. I scored an A in that subject thanks to him.

    He didn't really preach about the sleaze in Sao Paulo, he just reported the statistics and showed us his own pictures of life in the shanty towns. The disgust is purely my own.

    I hear what you're saying about how it's just isolated events and only in some places - and indeed my teacher's visit to Sao Paulo was way back in the late 1970's. But from what I've seen in the papers since then, neither Sao Paulo nor Rio de Janeiro have changed for the better. The thing that really gets me is the lack of regard Brazilian society apparently has for children.

    Are we to consider Brazil a "third world" country?
    There can be no excuse for a modern civilised society to allow children to remain homeless, let alone to ignore child murder and child prostitution. This could all be prevented if the Brazilian government - or the Brazilian people - only gave a damn about what was going on under their noses.

    Flame away, but that's my stance on the issue.

    Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
    Thought exists only as an abstraction

This process can check if this value is zero, and if it is, it does something child-like. -- Forbes Burkowski, CS 454, University of Washington