Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
PlayStation (Games) Input Devices Microsoft Sony XBox (Games) Games

How Sony and Microsoft Hope To Crack the Motion Control Market 138

Posted by Soulskill
from the flailing-of-arms-and-marketing-departments dept.
An editorial at Eurogamer delves into what Sony and Microsoft hope to achieve with their upcoming console motion control systems, despite entering the market several years after Nintendo set the standard. "The cards Sony has placed on the table this week suggest one answer to that question. It sees PlayStation Move as being an upgrade path for Wii owners — an invitation to the tens of millions of consumers who have invested in Nintendo's platform to swim upstream to the more powerful, HD-enabled system. Yet even Sony's most optimistic view of the market will be tempered by a dose of realism here. ... What's more likely — and what Sony are probably quietly hoping to achieve a significant proportion of the Move's success through — is that the technology will expand the appeal of the PS3 in the family setting." The Digital Foundry blog has an in-depth look at the PlayStation Move from Sony's event at the Game Developers Conference, saying, "... if there was one positive you could take away from the event, it was that Move is clearly a far more precise implementation than the Wiimote. Some of the games felt clearly more 'tactile' than the Wii equivalents."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

How Sony and Microsoft Hope To Crack the Motion Control Market

Comments Filter:
  • Games??? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Hamsterdan (815291) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @12:52PM (#31472850)
    In order to get that market, they will have to provide something Nintendo has for years... Games for everybody. Fun games for all ages.

    I'm talking about Raving Rabbids, Wii Sports, and such.

    My parents *NEVER* had any kind of console in the house, even when we were kids. They never even liked video games. Until they tried some on my sister's Wii. Now they bought one with many games. They're in their 60s. So unless SONY can target that kind of audience, it won't work.

    The Wii has the games, and also the price. It's the least expensive of all three.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by godrik (1287354)

      Exactly. My parent tried my wii when they were visiting me for holidays. As soon as they came back they bought a wii. Guess what they are playing the most : wii sport and link crossbow training !

      And damn they are good at those games since they have been playing it about one hour a day last year. How should we call them 'casual hardcore gamers' ?

      • by hkmwbz (531650)
        The first games were Wii Sports and Crossbow Training. When I was a kid and player NES games, they were incredibly simple, at least at first. And yet they were played to death. Nintendo is taking gaming back to its roots. It's part of their strategy to expand the market. Your parents are me when I was a kid, playing simple NES games. Well, except I probably played for a few hours and not just one or two each day :)
    • Re:Games??? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by toriver (11308) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:42PM (#31473194)

      SingStar, Buzz!, Rock Band etc. (OK not Sony themselves but...)

      Before the Wii, the PS2 was the king of casual console games.

    • Can someone hand that guy an insightful mod? It's about as dead on as it can be.

      The Wii is a "fun" console. It's a "party" console. Most games on the Wii are multiplayer, meaning local multiplayer (instead of networked/online gaming as the contemporary consoles). The games are certainly not as "sophisticated" or "hard" as the average X360 or PS3 game, and that's exactly what is wanted. Party games aren't really meant to be played for hours to master so you can participate at a party you get invited to. They

      • by Ihmhi (1206036)

        You know nothing about gamers! We don't want fun, we want HD graphics and twitch-aiming dammit!

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The price is really the key. They need to drop the base model PS3 to $199 -- easiest way to do this is to go the "Arcade" route, lose the hard drive and put all the data on a flash chip or SD card. That would allow them to compete on both fronts against the Wii and 360. The next thing they need is to arrange licensing so that publishers can release shovelware at a $40 launch price.

      At $299 for the base model and $60 games they're not going to win over any casual gamers. What makes those gamers casual is that

      • by Ihmhi (1206036)

        They're trying to do too many damn things at once, that's the problem.

        Nintendo tried something like what the PS3 is with the Game Cube in a very limited market. Or rather, they let Panasonic try. Panasonic came up with the Panasonic Q [wikipedia.org] (released in Japan only).

        It had such lovely features as:

        • GameCube (duh)
        • Backlit LCD display
        • DVD player
        • Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound

        And hey, it only cost five hundred bucks! It turned out that you could get a DVD Player and a Game Cube separately and it would wind up being chea

    • by rliden (1473185)

      This is it exactly. I'm probably somewhere in the market Sony and Microsoft are targeting. My wife and I are in our 40's with a couple young kids. We all have PCs and play games on them. We also have a Wii for playing console games. We have a Blu-Ray player for watching movies. I can't see us "upgrading" to a PS3 or an XBox 360. At

      We play Wii games when we want to play arcade style games or play muli-player together. The Wii is fun and the graphics are good. Before we bought the Nintendo we looked

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by F.Ultra (1673484)
      Not only that, the WII is a very nice little box that does takes up very little space and most importantly makes no sound. A PS3 or Xbox on the other hand is big bulky boxes and atleast the Xbox sounds like thunder.
      • by Waccoon (1186667)

        No sound? The disk drive in the Wii makes a racket when it seeks, and the fan is far from quiet. It also has a hollow, plastic sound as it operates, much like the original PS1, which gets really annoying. IMO, my (fat) PS3 is much quieter, even when the fan spins up.

        XBox360... well, that's a whole new level of noise. I can't stand using mine, because it just sounds like it's going to blow up at any second, and I mostly play Arcade games that don't even need a disc.

  • Because it was cheaper than the other two. I mean people knew it wasn't HD enabled years ago. I suppose that not being HD is a much bigger deal now that everybody's getting 1080p TV's. But then, the Wii was kind of always the "value" platform. Sony's gonna have to have some good motion games in order to upgrade...because the Wii already has some good brand/franchises going.
    • by LoudMusic (199347) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:17PM (#31473008)

      My experience is that it's really not that much cheaper. But rather it serves a different purpose. It is more for groups to play games and for casual gaming. The PS3 and XBox 360 tend to have games more designed for 'extreme gaming', online play, and long term commitment. Many of my friends who own a Wii say they only play it when friends are over and even at that haven't touched it in months. My friends who have a PS3 or XBox 360 play it at least every weekend, and often use it as a media player during the week.

      The console is a tad cheaper and the games are a tad cheaper, but the peripherals, which make a Wii what it is, are expensive and plentiful. In order to play those group games successfully you need four controllers and likely four 'nun-chucks' which is $60 x four players. The PS3 controllers are $55 and the XBox 360 controllers are $35. Then there are balance boards and light sabers and gun attachments and who knows what else to go along with the Wii in order to play all the various motion games they have, most of which you will again want / need to have four of to get the 'full experience'. And now there's some "motion plus" thing to make the controllers more sensitive? Not interested, sorry.

      • by tepples (727027)

        In order to play those group games successfully you need four controllers and likely four 'nun-chucks' which is $60 x four players.

        It's still cheaper than buying gaming laptops for all four players.

        • by brkello (642429)
          Uh, duh? It's also cheaper than buying a jet plane. But what does that have to do with what Loud Music said? Nothing. You make no sense. If Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor, and tepples is talking about buying laptops instead of Wii controllers, then you must acquit. And also, should ignore anything tepples says because he never makes any sense. The defense rests.
      • You can get a 2nd controller with Wii Play which effectively gives you a "free" controller with a game. It comes with wireless where as, at least with the 360, you need to buy that and Wii games are generally at least $10 cheaper.

        The attach rate as of last summer was 6 games per Wii which is a savings of $60 on software. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23308 [gamasutra.com]

        Supposedly the attach rate jumped up to 8 games per Wii over Xmas giving purchasers a $80 savings on software. http://arste [arstechnica.com]
    • by SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:28PM (#31473088) Homepage

      Exactly. When the PS3 launched here in the UK, it was £425 ($827 at the time), and the Wii was ~£130. Okay, you can get a PS3 now for £250, but the original PS3 even out-priced many serious gamers, you could forget the PS3 being a Christmas gift for most kids too.

      New release games are also expensive on the PS3, £39 to £49, compared to Wii's £25 to £35 price ranges.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by godrik (1287354)

        Wii used to be cheaper than the other ones. Today, the wii and the xbox 360 are at the same price ( $199 ). But the games for the wii are cheaper. They are a lot of very fun games on the wii for $15. I don't think it is the case for xbox 360 (but I don't own one so I do not know for sure)

        • Similar packages, one game, one controller (except Wii has a MotionPlus added), Wii in the UK is £170, Xbox 360 £200. They are not massively different in price, yes, however they used to be. That is when Xbox lost market share, and it' going to be hard to play catchup. PS3 is now more reasonable, but still the most expensive out of the three.

          • by ookaze (227977)

            Actually, this is all wrong.
            XBox 360 has been available for cheaper than the Wii for more than two years, at least in Europe.
            For example, Xbox 360 cheaper RRP is £160, and you can have it easily for £125 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/videogames/676520011/ref=amb_link_84048773_2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=left-1&pf_rd_r=1SKBT77N19WZRPE9W4AT&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=109912367&pf_rd_i=15826471).

            Price is not what made the Wii sell, and in Europe, the XB360 got utterly de

        • There are lots of fun games on the 360 for $10. They are just older titles. There's also tons of fun XBLA games in the $5-$15 range.
      • by Inda (580031)
        Only it wasn't 130 GBP, because no one could find one for sale. We had to wait a good 6 months for ours. It now gathers dust because the games are so poor.
    • by hkmwbz (531650)

      Because it was cheaper than the other two.

      LOL. No. They bought it because of the games. Games sell consoles.

  • for the developers to really develop for it?

    • by tepples (727027)
      The Balance Board doesn't come with the Wii console, yet games other than the Wii Fit game bundled with the Balance Board support it. The Classic Controller doesn't come with the Wii console, yet plenty of games support it. Controllers 2, 3, and 4 don't come with a console, but games that support them are the whole reason for gaming on a console instead of a PC.
      • Why dont PC games developers support the Wii balance board?

        The world is gasping for a Linux version of "International Mapouka Challenge" using the Wii balance board! Even I would pay $10 for it!

        • Why dont PC games developers support the Wii balance board?

          I see three reasons:

          • The Balance Board is a Bluetooth device. The Wii console has a Bluetooth radio on an internal USB port, but not all PCs have Bluetooth.
          • Movement on and around the Balance Board needs physical space, and a 17" monitor is harder to see from a suitable distance than a 32" TV. True, newer TVs have VGA and HDMI inputs, but the Wii also supports composite output for older TVs, and few newer TVs happen to have a PC plugged into them.
          • PC-exclusive developers tend to be smaller companies without
      • by timeOday (582209)
        Other examples of aftermarket controls that caught on are guitars and also joysticks for PCs :)
        • by tepples (727027)

          Other examples of aftermarket controls that caught on are [...] joysticks for PCs

          Citation needed that console-style joysticks for PCs have caught on. As I understand it, most major-label PC games are designed for a separate PC, monitor, mouse, and keyboard per player; social multiplayer games tend to be either console-exclusive or multi-console with no PC version. If there is in fact a healthy market for games designed for a PC, TV monitor, and multiple gamepads, I'd like to read about it.

          Or by "joysticks", did you mean flight simulator joysticks?

          • by timeOday (582209)
            Yup, I just meant regular joysticks. Few computers come with them, yet many games are compatible with them. Yet they used to be ubiquitous for gaming. Granted, not as much any more.
      • Same old games- and heavily 1st shooters and racing. Now its HD, you can see more details maybe have less gameplay and more realism. Same old thing new look with maybe a big new "revolutionary" feature like some comical weapon or gimmick.

        I didn't plan on touching any new systems, I've been there and done that; plus I have more of a life so I can't invest the time to master something that is just version 8 of the same cliche with more controls than version 7! (except no keyboard...)

        I ended up with a Wii- be

      • by ookaze (227977)

        The Balance Board doesn't come with the Wii console, yet games other than the Wii Fit game bundled with the Balance Board support it. The Classic Controller doesn't come with the Wii console, yet plenty of games support it. Controllers 2, 3, and 4 don't come with a console, but games that support them are the whole reason for gaming on a console instead of a PC.

        Clearly this is the problem with the HD consoles, which focus on single player games or online multiplayer games, just like PC games. In fact, most games on these consoles, and most successful ones, are single player or online multiplayer affairs, meaning they are basically PC games. Only the Wii concentrate on console values and has lots of games with local multiplayer.
        It's no wonder, because lots of western developers on HD consoles are PC developers migrating en masse to the consoles.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:18PM (#31473014)

    The good news is that you can basically think of all of the good or even great games on the Wii and then imagine them with HD graphics and surround sound. The best examples I can think of are Resident Evil 4 Wii edition and Dead Space: Extraction. Both are highly polished, adult oriented, motion controlled shooter titles. Now imagine the graphics of Resident Evil 5 or original Dead Space on the PS3/360 with the motion controller functionality of the Wii.

    The definitive version of Resident Evil 4 is the Wii version in my opinion. After using the motion controls I had zero desire to go back to the old pad controller for RE5 on my PS3. And after playing the RE5 demo I didn't even buy the game. If RE5 had the Wii style controls I would probably be playing the game now. At this point Capcom should should be begging MS and SONY for motion control dev kits for RE5 Motion Edition.

    And think of added functionality and benefits that recent games like Heavy Rain (PS3) will have. SONY and MS could really take the motion control idea and expand it into games geared towards adults and older gamers.

    The real downside is that the motion controls on the Wii have led to an enormous number of gimmick games with little polish. Basically crap titles that are churned out day after day completely watering down the system's library of games. For every good Wii game that comes out it seems around one hundred awful games join the fray.

    • Sturgeon's Law (Score:3, Insightful)

      by tepples (727027)

      For every good Wii game that comes out it seems around one hundred awful games join the fray.

      It's been that way since the Atari 2600. Sturgeon's Law: every console's library is 90% crud.

    • That's Nintendo's fault actually. Since the Gamecube era they've totally lessened the minimum quality requirements to have your game approved for publishing on their consoles. That Nintendo "seal of quality" has completely lost its meaning.
    • by ookaze (227977)

      The good news is that you can basically think of all of the good or even great games on the Wii and then imagine them with HD graphics and surround sound. The best examples I can think of are Resident Evil 4 Wii edition and Dead Space: Extraction. Both are highly polished, adult oriented, motion controlled shooter titles. Now imagine the graphics of Resident Evil 5 or original Dead Space on the PS3/360 with the motion controller functionality of the Wii.

      The bad news is that you can basically only think of all of the good or even great games on the Wii and then imagine them with HD graphics. Surround sound is just stupid as the Wii already has surround sound, just like Gamecube actually (Dolby Prologic II, which is at least 5.0).
      Games can't be done in HD just because people want them. There's a reason why lots of games on the HD consoles are not even in HD resolution (which is minimum 1280x720).
      There's a reason why Capcom, who made Resident Evil 4, abandone

  • I think the real factor in how these new motion controllers will do is the games.

    IMHO, in all the years the Wii has been out only a few games have been innovative enough to really show off some cool stuff with the Wii mote.
    And I have yet to see anything that made me very impressed.

    While I love the normal game pad/keyboard and mouse, I believe that motion controllers have a huge amount of potential (not to take over, but to evolve alongside other controller types).

    • That's because the Wii Motion Plus only came out recently, and until then the Wii's motion control sucked.
    • Try the PS3's High Velocity Bowling. Its been available for a while, its motion controlled, and costs only £7 last time I looked. (it uses the DS3/SixAxis motion control) and its actually a party game that is fun.. on the PS3.

  • More precise? (Score:5, Informative)

    by manekineko2 (1052430) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:21PM (#31473048)

    "... if there was one positive you could take away from the event, it was that Move is clearly a far more precise implementation than the Wiimote. Some of the games felt clearly more 'tactile' than the Wii equivalents."

    It's interesting that their experience is so different from Engadget's.

    http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/playstation-move-first-hands-on/ [engadget.com]

    Engadget's hands-on found:
    * We hate to say this about "pre-alpha" software, but we're feeling lag. An on-rails shooter we tried out, dubbed The Shoot, was discernibly inferior to shooting experiences we've had on the Wii, both in precision and refresh rate of the aiming cursor.
    * The system seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding the configuration of our body in a swordfighting stance: even though we selected "left handed," it was putting our sword arm forward instead of our shield. Right-handers didn't seem to have similar problems, and we're sure this will be ironed out in time, but it certainly shows that the controllers aren't magical in their space-detection prowess.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jensen404 (717086)
      The main difference between the controllers is the position of the camera.  The Wii camera is inside the remote, with the target above or below the monitor.  The PS3 camera is by the monitor, with the target on the controller.

      The Wii configuration is better for games that have you point at the screen, and the Move configuration is better when you're not pointing at the screen.
    • by trawg (308495)

      I had the same experience as Engadget at first - tried it out and there was noticable lag. I asked the Sony guy about it and he said that it loses calibration sometimes when its in really crowded environments (this was at the launch at GDC last week). He recalibrated it (took about 1 minute absolute tops) and then I tried again and the lag was completely gone.

  • by mathx314 (1365325) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:30PM (#31473106)

    I can't see either Sony or Microsoft succeeding, regardless of the quality of their actual products. The problem is that the "hardcore" gamers, the ones who flock to the Playstation and Xbox, don't want a motion controller. They're content to play games with a gamepad. Meanwhile, the more "casual" gamers have already gone with the Wii. Anybody looking into buying a new system with motion controls will see that the Wii is $200 while the PS3/360 are ~$300 plus the cost of the motion controllers.

    This has nothing to do with the quality of the products (I suspect Natal's going to suck hard, though the feedback from Move seems to be pretty good) and everything to do with what people want. If Sony or Microsoft released a new, cheaper console with a motion controller packed in, I could see that being successful. As it stands, I can't see too many people dropping $100 to play LittleBigPlanet with a motion controller.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Nerdfest (867930)
      Hardcore gamers generally want to play with a mouse and keyboard for immediate response in aiming, etc. This may be able to give that to them. The Xbox one worries me, as I'm unlikely to stand up for a 16 hour gaming session.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by mathx314 (1365325)
        Depends on the gamer. I'm a mouse-and-keyboard guy myself, but I know a lot of people who I'd qualify as hardcore who prefer gamepads. And when it comes to a less competitive game (say, a good adventure or role-playing game) I do prefer gamepads.
      • Meh, when I feel like hardcore gaming, I prefer to lay out on the couch in varying positions, not sit at my desk. Probably why there are about 20 games I bought from Steam that I never played.

    • So in other words what you're really saying is that you don't fit the target audience, therefore all hardcore gamers don't want this.

      I'm actually looking forward to the idea of using motion controls. I didn't get a Wii because it was so underpowered and casual-gamer centric, and I didn't get a PS3/XBox 360 b/c one can get the same experience on a PC.

      But motion controls on a PS3? I'm there. And ever since I got my hands on a copy of the original Zelda when I was 5 and was sucked into a world I had nev

    • by brkello (642429)
      It is simpler than that. It isn't going to do well because it isn't bundled with the console.

      Success to them is turning a profit. I think they have a chance to manage that. And what they have learned in making this can pay off in future console generations.
  • Motion Control? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bmo (77928) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:44PM (#31473218)

    I read the title of the summary and hoped that I could watch the comedy as Sony and Microsoft would try to compete against Siemens, GE Fanuc, Mitsubishi, etc, (you know, actual motion control vendors), but then I read it was about video games.

    Oh well. So much for "news for nerds"

    --
    BMO

  • by 93 Escort Wagon (326346) on Sunday March 14, 2010 @01:53PM (#31473254)

    We have a Wii - it was the first current-generation console we purchased. We did eventually buy a PS3, but in large part it was because our old DVD player died - we figured if we were going to have to live with discs a while longer, we might as well have the option of watching Blu-Ray (through Netflix; I don't have much interest in purchasing most movies). Of course we did buy a few games for the PS3; but in the end we still end up playing much more on the Wii because it just seems to be more enjoyable.

    I know there are lots of Slashdotters that really get into the high-def, shoot-em-in-the-head-repeatedly (or cut-them-into-multiple-pieces) games; but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of variety or innovation in the PS3 games that I've looked at. The graphics are certainly stunning; but so many of these games are just variations on the same theme. If these new controllers end up leading to a wider range of games, then great! But if they end up just offering yet another way to swing that sword or shoot that gun, I can't see them having much impact - the people who want to spend lots of time playing those sorts of games seem perfectly happy mashing buttons.

    • by abigor (540274)

      Check out Heavy Rain sometime.

    • I know there are lots of Slashdotters that really get into the high-def, shoot-em-in-the-head-repeatedly (or cut-them-into-multiple-pieces) games; but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of variety or innovation in the PS3 games that I've looked at.

      Those games, on larger scales, are starting to come out. (Heavy Rain was mentioned, and I'm pretty sure Last Guardian will be pretty unique).

      But if you really want something different, explore the games on PSN. There are some really fun things there, Flow was

      • Agreed, as I said earlier, one of the real stars on PSN is High Velocity Bowling. Its a motion controlled bowling game that exists NOW, for current machines/controllers, and just works. And is probably one of the most favourite party games we have (especially after a few drinks). Cheap too.

        Also Lemmings is good. And cheap.

        And Outrun 2006 for the retro lot.

    • by tomhudson (43916)
      You would have been better buying a stand-alone blu-ray player. The PS3 is a power hog when it comes to playing movies - almost 200 watts, as opposed to stand-alone blu-ray players well under 20 watts - and SILENT. And with stand-alone blu-ray players at $100, the PS3 is a no-buy as a BD player. Hot and noisy.

      http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-356-3.htm [hardcoreware.net]

  • Microsoft won't copy Nintendo. Microsoft innovates. Steve Ballmer said so.
  • I believe what Sony really hopes is that it will help developers create games for the Wii and PS3. The difference between the two will not be that huge other than one has HD. However, the huge problem for Sony is that this controller isn't in the hands of the 32+ MILLION PS3 owners. The other problem is that the vast majority of PS3 owners currently don't really buy the "casual" games and thus the games don't reflect the market base. Now Sony getting the PS3 down to 300 in the U.S.A has helped a ton, bu

    • PS3 owners do buy "casual" games, but they buy them via PSN. Which kind of leaves the PS3 in a bit of a pickle. The kind of folks who find the Wii appealing don't know about PSN or the fact that there are party and casual games on it. They can see the Wii's "family game night" library, but they see the PS3 with it's "Shooter of the week" lineup and don't look elsewhere.

      • I agree totally. I also own all the R&C games for the PS3, and LBP. The sad part is how hard you Sony pushed LBP to have it sell like it did. Granted the game has some great legs but it is still sad. Then you compare R&C to Resistance and you see why Insomniac would focus on FPS for the PS3.

  • ...they are already designing the next bombshell for MS and Sony to run behind. ^^

    And that is why they won’t actually catch up.
    It’s old. Go ahead MS and Sony. Control that market for the time it dies while getting replaced by the next big thing.
    The big thing that won’t be coming from you. ;)

    • Alot of wii systems out there, but not alot being used in the same way 360s and PS3s are. Both the HD consoles are digital advertising platforms. The Wii's online offerings are really sad in comparison. They sell pretty much only games and most of it is 20 year old NES stuff. Wiiware is ok, but not enough of it and its mostly meh quality. Alot of Wii consoles out there, but very few making long tail money for Nintendo
  • There is ONE thing that REALLY annoy me with these reviews, it's all the buildup-hype.
    Too many times I've been disappointed with all these augmented reality devices that are set to change the world every time they're released.
    The only controller that "surprised" me in a positive way was the WiiMote, it was truly revolutionary, but the Wii itself - way behind our time due to it's slow speed, low-resolution non-HD graphics.

    The PS3 camera was a HUGE disappointment for me, especially with EyePet, this thing nee

Swap read error. You lose your mind.

Working...