"Install Other OS" Feature Removed From the PS3 739
Hann1bal writes "The next system software update for the PlayStation 3 system will be released on April 1, 2010 (JST), and will disable the 'Install Other OS' feature that was available on the PS3 systems prior to the current slimmer models, launched in September 2009. This feature enabled users to install an operating system, but due to security concerns, Sony Computer Entertainment will remove the functionality through the 3.21 system software update."
Updated 3:49 GMT by timothy: An anonymous reader writes "This comes as something of a surprise. Particularly because only a month ago Sony Computer Entertainment management seemed committed to the continued support of the Other OS option on the PS3."
Sorry kids (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a flaming PS3 fanboy, I think the games on the PS3 are awesome and significantly better than the 360's, and I really love the full functionality of this machine.
But this really has me seeing red.
I've been using my PS3 for all kinds of shit. It's got firefox and open office and all kinds of productive capabilities. In linux, the Cell rips DVDs much faster than a conventional CPU can.
I understand that the black hat community is actively trying to hack the PS3 because it's proven to be very well protected from pirates. I realize Sony is a business and they are simply trying to protect their rights. But this is removing functionality I paid for and own. Telling me this is my option, my choice, but I can no longer log into the Playstation network (which is required to play many games I downloaded for a fee... you have to be connected to their network or the game won't work... which I didn't know until I had a period without a connection) is no option at all.
They are taking away something that belongs to me. I am really pissed that they couldn't figure out a better way to thwart hackers. Even their own version of Linux, some new version of YDL, that they control, would be better than completely taking away this feature.
I sold my 360 after it was fixed from a RROD (I still play my SNES and don't need a gimp machine that can't last 20 years). I won't go back to xbox. But I am probably not going to go back to PS4 or PS5. Once this generation is over, I'm back to PC gaming. Fucking Sony. Once again, you've gone a little too far in fighting pirates. Like that root kit thing that was ages ago... people have a hard time forgetting that shit.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't like pirates... they suck profit out of a tough field and generally make the world a worse place out of their selfishness... but I pirate games all the time just as a demo, and buy the ones that don't suck.
I guess it's okay if you do it.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Funny)
aEN
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Informative)
I quote: "just as a demo, and buy the ones that don't suck"
I do exactly the same as the GP, so I'm really interested to know how exactly can we otherwise evaluate if a game is good enough to buy. Please let us know.
We're past the time when demos were freely available and representative of the game as a whole, commercial game review sites and magazines are pretty much in the pocket of the industry (two words: "grade inflaction") and will hype POSes harder than anybody else and "user review" sites are full of fanboys and "grassroots marketing".
[How often have you seen a game review which actually heavilly criticized a game from a major publisher due to bugs?]
To add insult to injury, consumer legislation is such that in many countries you'll be hard pressed to get a refund if a game doesn't at all work in your system. As a mater of fact, pirating games before buying them has saved me lots of problem with games that wouldn't work at all or were just too buggy: try getting a refund from any game store (especially an online one) on a game because it crashes every 10 minutes and see how far you get.
The day when I can go back to the store and get my money back on a game because it's buggy and/or sucks is the day I'll stop downloading games before buying them.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Insightful)
I do exactly the same as the GP, so I'm really interested to know how exactly can we otherwise evaluate if a game is good enough to buy. Please let us know.
Do you need a free lunch to evaluate if a restaurant is worth your money ? How do you evaluate if a movie is worth the ticket without seeing it ? Seriously..
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
If I eat at a restaurant and the food is only halfway cooked, the water glass has a hole in the side, and my chair has an exposed nail in the seat, I generally get my money back.
If I go see a movie and it is horribly spliced and random scenes are replaced with photos of cardboard cutouts, I generally get my money back.
If I buy a game and it crashes constantly, seems to be missing several scenes, and the ending consists of shooting at a bat-thing in the middle of an otherwise empty skybox like it was just tacked on when the money ran out, I would expect my money back. But it isn't likely to happen.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I wondered if anyone would get that. A winner is you!
I'm apparently excellent at buying games that have a good concept but suck in implementation. And yet the reviews beforehand were all so positive, barring Yahtzee, but he reviewed well afterwards since nobody in their right mind would give him a prerelease copy.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In addition to the things the other commenters have pointed out, despite what the industry may think, a game is a good. Eating at a restaurant and watching a movie in a theater are services.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
2 Words. Penny Arcade.
You might not like Gabe and Tycho, you might not like the games they play but they at least give you a fair idea of what they are like going in. The biggest thing that sucks is that they're format doesn't allow for them to review a lot of games. There is a reason they have become a power in the gaming world.
Grammar Nazi time... (Score:4, Informative)
Their not They're....
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Informative)
Given the mention of PC...there's a good reason why it's #86 on PC (4 times lower than San Adreas), instead of #1.
The PC port was just unjustifiably buggy and lame, with Rockstar withholding fixes for months at a time.
Given that it's based on critic (not popular) review, you could even say that the 86 position is too damn good for it, especially since USERS give it a mere 4.6/10. http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/grandtheftauto4 [metacritic.com]
That, is a freaking trainwreck, especially given that it used particularly invasive form of SecuROM DRM which was the principle reason generally agreed upon (perhaps wayback has archives of the GTA4 forums just after release) for it performing so slow. http://www.pcgamefuntime.com/2008/12/grand-theft-auto-iv-drm-debacle/ [pcgamefuntime.com]
You could throw a monster machine at it, and get 14-20FPS, even on low detail and low resolution.
If you point to how well received console versions were when somebody references the PC port, you clearly don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with your sentiment, but I think you exaggerate. If we stop buying software for 24 months, corporate heads will wake up, and make a lot of concessions - but that won't end proprietary software. And, in fact, I really don't want to see all proprietary software eradicated.
Hey, even Windows would be a decent buy, for twenty bucks, if they stopped with the WGA nonsense, end their stupid call-home validation processes, and whatever other idiot crap they have in mind. They never should have cared about small time dummies who download a ripped ISO. The only piracy they should EVER have gone after, are OEM's who use pirated Windows, and the mass producers of pirated CD's. I think almost everyone can get behind that sort of anti-piracy.
Twenty bucks for a legal Win7 CD, and I can re-install it as many times as I wish in my own home, and I'd run right out to buy a copy. At ten times that price, it's nothing but a ripoff, and I will never buy it.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with piracy in some respects, I think it's a great tool to get what you want while protesting some aspects such as DRMs, aggressive pricing, inconvenience, etc...
And this is why we have no effective protests anymore. If you're protesting, it's really only effective if you sacrifice something to do so. Otherwise it's shallow, and the corporation/government/whoever you protest against knows you can be pushed around because you don't really care. If your principles aren't important enough to you to sacrifice while fighting for them, why should they take them seriously? You obviously don't.
Imagine if the Civil Rights movement had its members get up and leave as soon as they were threatened with arrest? What if they got up from the seats they were occupying in a whites-only cafe because they were hungry? What if they picketted, but only until they were threatened with fire hoses? What if they continued to use public transit during the boycotts, just because it was a long walk? Do you really think anything would have changed?
By pirating, you let the game publishers know that you can't do without their game, so all they need to do is hold the line, increase the DRM, and eventually they can get you (or others like you) to buy it without giving into your 'demands'. Look at Modern Warfare 2. There was a 'boybott' group on Steam filled with players in MW2 on launch day. It's no wonder IW didn't care that people were upset, they still got paid!
So don't blow a bunch of smoke up my ass about piracy being a useful protest tool. It likely does more harm to protests than good. Using the word 'protest' is just a convenient justification for "I don't want to pay for this, but I also don't want to feel like I'm doing anything wrong".
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, the case in point is that if/when people do protest by stopping purchasing (and even stop pirating), it doesn't matter because the publisher/distributors simply BLAME PIRATES for the loss of sales and put MORE INVASIVE DRM on the product, which is the very thing you are PROTESTING AGAINST!
But the very point is that they don't need to. They see higher piracy numbers, and the CEOs make the only conclusion that makes economic sense, particularly for a publicly traded company.
As a secondary effect, if even the serious protestors are seen as hypocrites ('I don't like their measures to stop piracy, so I'll pirate it'), no neutral 3rd party will take their side. Rather than evoking sympathy at injustice, they are seen as a bunch of stuck-up middle-class white teenage thieves, and Ubisoft and Act
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
I dislike it when people degrade protest for human rights by comparing it to a protest for fair value on entertainment.
How did I degrade them? I'd say the degrading thing is those who use the same word 'protest' to describe their anger over a luxury item not being suitable to them, while simultaneously selfishly consuming the very thing they disagree with.
My comparison? Civil rights activists were brave and willing to stand up to injustice. Pirates are children who justify getting what they want without paying as 'sticking it to the man'.
Piracy itself is a "problem" created in order to take stock holders focuses off the real problem, which is people are getting screwed and are saying, "I'm not going to pay for that because {you're nickle and dimeing me || you want my arms AND legs || you don't want me to use something I paid you for || you want complete control over everything I do if I use your product}". Causing a loss in profits. Piracy is a way out so the company can say, "It's not our fault, look how many hundreds of millions of billions of people would have bought our product if it wasn't being stolen"
I don't disagree with you. However, because of the quantity of real piracy, these companies have a very strong case that there are lost revenues due to piracy. It's not the 'problem' that's invented (piracy is real and doesn't provide tangible benefits to the company), just the interpretation of the solution. Because they have a quite reasonable scapegoat for lost sales, they focus their attention toward fighting piracy instead of fixing their games and using fair pricing.
In other words, pirating a game to protest the pricing/implementation/DRM actually encourages increased DRM, harsher pricing schemes, and more creative methods to get money from you. Piracy is counter-productive to gamers, in general. Not that the corporations are innocent here, but piracy (which is a real cost to companies) puts them in a bind with their executives and shareholders that encourages this type of behavior. Pirates share some of the blame here, too. Don't pretend you're all innocent or harmless.
It's close minded people like you who think there is only ever one way to go about something that devalue the actions of anyone that disagree with your point of view that is enabling the corporations and government to get away with murder.
Calling it 'murder' to overcharge for a video game seems a bit excessive. Nobody died because they couldn't play a brand-new AAA video game, and anyone who spent too much or regretted a purchase on a luxury item has only themselves to blame. I'm also not sure what the government has to do with any of this, let alone how they benefit from aggressive DRM on video games.
Personally, I think it's the people who buy and play these luxury items regardless of the cost, DRM, and ramifications that allow the companies to take advantage of us. They're the ones that reward the game producers for the status quo, so they're the ones to blame for the lack of innovation and fairness to the consumer.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And all you have to do, is just use only Free Software for 24 months
The article is about PLAYSTATION 3, a device whose primary advertised features are to play non-free major-label video games and to play non-free major-label high-definition movies. So during these 24 months, how do you propose funding the creation of high-quality video games and feature films under a free software and free cultural works license?
And every time I restart a PC running Ubuntu, I use non-free BIOS software. Where can I find an affordable computer that runs coreboot?
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Informative)
If you want Linux so badly, install it on a PC. I installed Linux on my PS3 for fun. It worked. I got bored after a couple of minutes (I already use Ubuntu 100% on my machines at home and work, apart from when I need to remote desktop into Windows servers). It's meant to be faster these days, but still it's rather pointless unless you're writing multicore research programs, or don't have a PC with Linux.
If they had included access to the 3D graphics capabilities then I'd be saying something completely different here, but the capabilities that they built in are pretty worthless, and only having 256MB (I think?) of RAM limits what apps you can run usefully.
I suspect there will be a crack soon anyway, that's why Sony are currently trying to lock things down. Maybe they will succeed. I don't really care either way. I probably wouldn't risk bricking my PS3. It's too useful to me as a games and multimedia machine. We'll soon be at the stage where you will be able to build a faster PC for less money anyway. Hopefully they will include a decent "Other OS" setup for PS4, but I doubt it. Especially considering they were making a loss on the early units and thousands of them were being bought up just for Linux based research projects..
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That depends, how crappy is your TV? Mine has VGA and HDMI inputs..
Your PS3 basically already is a media center. The built in media browser isn't great for music that's already on the HDD I'll admit, but it works really well for external drives, and the built in browser is fine fine for TV and movies already on the HDD.
It's fine for crunching numbers yes, but if this guy is "saving up for a console" he doesn't sound like the type of person that is looking to be crunching numbers.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Well, it is a bit of a dick move on Sony's part, but I guess I just appreciate not having cheaters on PS3 games much more than I do being able to mess around with the Cell.. someone was getting close to creating a full crack for the hypervisor and this is their way of trying to slow him down.
You still would be able to install Linux and play PS2 games if you bought one of the original PS3s. I think simply wiping the HDD should reset it back to the factory OSS and you wouldn't ever need to run a system update
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Insightful)
Well I would love to see the Hypervisor cracked. I would love to have access to the GPU in Linux. Sony doesn't because then people could write good games that run under Linux on the PS3
As for the stopping cheaters. Great fine just don't take away a feature to do it.
Frankly I doubt that will stop them for long and will only cripple access to those that want to access the Cell.
If Sony had allowed access to the GPU through they hypervisor then the only reason to crack it would be to copy games and cheating.
So yes I agree that you are defending Sony too much. I liked the PS2 but felt the PS3 was too expensive for what you got at the time. You can like the PS3 hardware all you want. It does look like a nice piece of kit.
However again this policy just sucks and is really annoying. If Sony just updated the Hypervisor to stop people from cracking it while allowing people to still run Linux I would not complain.
If Sony added access to the GPU I would praise them and go and buy one.
I did not even get too bent when Sony came out with a new model that didn't support Linux. That is their right to change a product BEFORE I BUY IT.
It is the post purchase crippling that is just evil and frankly I feel dishonest.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Insightful)
DRM? Odd, none of the games I bought lately had any. I admit, it takes a little effort to make sure you only buy games whose creators treat you like a customer rather than a criminal that first has to prove their innocense before you're allowed to play their game, but these companies exist. Stardock is one of them, for example.
10 years ago, your task as a computer gamer has been to read reviews and previews to spot the gem amongst the lemons. Today, your task is to read boards and online discussions to see which games don't infest your computer with malware in disguise and essentially only allow you to rent instead of buy your game. It hasn't really changed, you just have to read different information material. It's no longer the game reviews that tell you which game is "awesome", it's the user boards and DRM watchdog pages that tell you which games you can safely buy.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
Bi-annual hardware upgrades? Realistically you only need to upgrade your PC hardware once every console generation, since all of the games are multi-platform releases these days. You can game just fine on PCs right now with a 2 year old GPU and CPU. Just because you game on a PC doesn't mean you have to be a 'ricer' type. Hell, most PC gamers I know these days use laptops...
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
it never failed to run linux. Sony just doesn't want to support it anymore.
It'll still happen anyway, I'm sure.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:4, Interesting)
The funny thing about this is I actually saw a pile of PS3 boxes in Fry's yesterday and seriously considered buying one on impulse to run Linux as a MythTV front end, but my bad experiences with past Sony products held me back. Now I'm really glad I didn't pick one up. I would have returned it first thing tomorrow.
Actually, what am I saying? I kind of wish I had bought one the other day so that I could have returned it tomorrow... stick it to the Man and all that.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody was forcing you to install the firmware..
Wrong, Sony is forcing you all the time to upgrade the firmware. Using new games might require a firmware upgrade, using the shop requires firmware upgrade, using Home requires firmware upgrade, using DRMed videos requires firmware upgrade and so on. Of course you can say "no" to the upgrade, but then you have basically a brick, as you can't do anything that requires a firmware upgrade.
Sony gives you basically the "choice" to play games or run Linux, to bad that what I bought from them was a machine that could play games *and* run Linux. Stuff like this really should result in a lawsuit, as you shouldn't be allowed to remove features that the costumer payed for.
Where have all the smart people gone from Slashdot? It seems to be full of clueless kneejerk reaction retards now...
And you seem to be one of them...
Re: (Score:3)
Wrong, Sony is forcing you all the time to upgrade the firmware. Using new games might require a firmware upgrade, using the shop requires firmware upgrade, using Home requires firmware upgrade, using DRMed videos requires firmware upgrade and so on. Of course you can say "no" to the upgrade, but then you have basically a brick, as you can't do anything that requires a firmware upgrade.
None of this actually forces you to install the firmware. It might be a very strong encouragement if you want to play games, but there are an awful lot of people here who would buy a console and never use it for gaming. Those people are not going to be forced by any of the stuff you mention above.
The original poster was just talking about buying a console to run Linux on, he did not say he was buying one to play games and run linux so the guy you replied to had a valid point.
Where have all the smart people gone from Slashdot? It seems to be full of clueless kneejerk reaction retards now..
And you seem to be one of them...
Oh I see, you just wanted to get
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Funny)
"It doesn't run linux anymore."
Want to bet? I PAID FOR FUCKING OTHEROS - You take it from me and I WILL SUE YOUR ASS FOR THEFT OF SERVICES.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Informative)
By the way, for those of you wanting to join me in the class-action I'm gong to form - just look up Finkelstein and Thompson if you're in the state of CA - they helped me out with Spore and they'll most certainly come in handy for this nonsense NOW.
100 Bush Street
San Francisco, CA 94104-3954
(415) 398-8700
Ask for Mr. Punzalan.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
While I'm sure many will welcome you taking Sony to task, do you mind if I ask exactly how a $10 voucher against your next purchase of a Sony product will help you run Linux on your PS3?
By smacking down bad actors (Score:4, Interesting)
I see this sentiment a lot whenever class action lawsuits are discussed, but as a lawyer that has absolutely nothing to do with class action lawsuits, I would like to point out that one of the biggest purposes of class action lawsuits that people normally overlook when complaining about them is the deterrence effect.
Class action lawsuits are basically one of the most, if not the most, expensive form of litigation a company can endure. Even though due to the number of plaintiffs, in the end each person might only get a $10 gift card, the combined cost to the company of that are staggering.
In this case, it would be taking Sony to task, and hopefully Sony would see the error of its ways and back down. Even if that is not the eventual outcome, it sends a message to all the other bad guys out there, if you engage in this type of shenanigans, you should think twice because it will cost you dearly.
In a way, the lawyers who bring the suit are acting as private attorney generals, punishing wrong doing that may not rise to the criminal level, but affecting large swaths of the populace in a tortious fashion nonetheless. While no doubt the lawyers involve need to be incentivized to engage in this activity somehow, whether they should be rewarded as richly as they are for it currently is another issue entirely...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Funny)
My felony record says I'd straighten your ass out for thinking you'd even stand a chance of being a RLTG versus the ITG you're currently portraying, and you'd only bend over and take it. Especially with a name like ClownPenis! What, you gotta inflate your junk first?
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Funny)
My felony record says I'd straighten your ass out for thinking you'd even stand a chance of being a RLTG versus the ITG you're currently portraying, and you'd only bend over and take it. Especially with a name like ClownPenis! What, you gotta inflate your junk first?
Dear felon, Unless you are also rwven, WTF are you doing even responding to me? I clearly "QUOTED" the comment I was replying to. That comment didn't belong to you. You are attacking my junk unprovoked.
Re:Sorry kids (Score:5, Insightful)
Cell is a dead end (Score:5, Insightful)
It might have amounted to something yesterday. Now it's just another fringe platform. In the long story of computer history there have been many processors that have been marginalized by their vendors when they really did rock. The Cell is one, and now it's lost.
The thing is, I expected that from Sony because that's what they do - so I never bothered to master programming for Cell. They just don't get it. They never did and they never will. They've got some world class engineers and the poor bastards are restrained from ruling the world by the idiots they have in marketing and the executive branch.
To be fair, Toshiba and IBM (who participated in the Cell design) don't get it either - they'll never release a Cell platform that normal people can afford, and so they'll avoid the synergy that takes it from the fringe to dominance. It'll live and die in their mainframes and that's it - and they'll make a mint migrating their customers to the next fringe platform because God & Everybody knows you can't run mainframe OS's on x86 harware (right?).
But Sony? No, I expect this from Sony. Some people will find a way to break their DRM and run any OS you want on the thing now - but it's too late. That's too marginal and conditional for people who build stuff. Dammit Sony: we have enough stuff that doesn't work with our other stuff! Will you quit with the breaking flexibility please?
Re:Cell is a dead end (Score:4, Insightful)
The x86 juggernaut basically made all other architectures irrelevant for most computer users. Most people use their computers for accessing the internet, writing documents, watching videos. Who cares what's hardware is running as long as it does what people want? At one point I was all about PowerPC, until I installed Debian on my Mac and then realized I could get faster hardware for less money. Now I don't really care what hardware my computer runs any more.
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I would give an arm and a leg for an ARM desktop computer.
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Yesterday it wasn't a fringe platform? x86 hardware has basically caught up with the Cell in power, whose major innovation was an architecture that reduced loss due to chip imperfections.
It's not a bad chipset, and it poses interesting questions. But the only non-fringe main chipsets right now are x86, ARM, those people still using 68000's, and MIPS. OK, there are a few others mixed in there for embedded applications. But the Cell definitely has very little going for it compared to other platforms.
Sony, marginalizing themselves since...well since. (Score:3, Insightful)
You not only hit the nail on the head, you drove it in with a single blow Daniel-san style.
This is why I've avoided Sony hardware like the plague for years now.
It's not that they don't release some EXCELLENT stuff.
It's just that they're such control freaks that they eventually decide to take their ball and go home with it.
Never mind that they're killing their own product.
Never mind that they're destroying a potential developer base.
Never mind that some of the things being developed on said platform are incr
Re:Cell is a dead end (Score:5, Insightful)
Terrifying that they thought this was a good idea. That said, AFAIK, Cell was never part of the POWER architecture in any way; their mainframe integration amounted to a coprocessor card to which specially-written apps could offload work.
No surprise that it got few takers; most code probably ran faster on the POWER6... with vector optimizations turned off... and the CPU scaled back to half its normal speed... and all but one core disabled....
Not to mention that IIRC, Cell basically only does one thing well: single-precision floating-point math. For certain tasks, that's great, but then again, my GPU does a good job of that, too, and I can stick several beefy ones in a computer for a whole heck of a lot less than the cost of an IBM mainframe.... :-)
False Advertising? (Score:2, Troll)
This is BS, I don't see this being a good PR move, Possibly might even fall into
Re:False Advertising? (Score:5, Funny)
Have you ever seen Sony do a good PR move?
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The rampant chipless/modless piracy didnt help either.
The Dreamcast died because Sega needed to get 10 million more units sold and they didn't have the capital to build the machines.
There are a few people that like to claim 'piracy' had anything to do with the Dreamcast's death because geeks like you and me went on an IRC channel and downloaded a game or two and burned it, and found it played just fine. Then we asked a friend with similar interests and PC capabilities and they said "yeah, I did that too!", and mentally we turned that into a baseless statistic
On April 1? (Score:5, Insightful)
what are the security concerns? (Score:2)
It's not totally implausible that the feature allows some sort of exploit, but I can't seem to find anything about one actually existing, or it having come up in the past as a security concern. Is that just a cover to remove it, or are there actually security concerns?
Re:what are the security concerns? (Score:5, Interesting)
GeoHot's hack [blogspot.com] was obviously way easier to do because he had a powerful userspace to work from.
Perhaps this is what's spooking Sony.
Re:what are the security concerns? (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, that makes sense--- so it's Sony's security they're worried about, rather than, as the press release implies, the security of Playstation owners.
Re:what are the security concerns? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not totally implausible that the feature allows some sort of exploit, but I can't seem to find anything about one actually existing, or it having come up in the past as a security concern. Is that just a cover to remove it, or are there actually security concerns?
I think it's a huge security concern that Sony is trying to plug up without anyone noticing. Linux has access to all the hardware of the PS3 when it's the OS being ran (implementation isn't perfect yet though). Including it's blue ray disc reader that a lot of people don't normally have access to. This is how the Dreamcast was hacked even though it ran special 1 gig discs. People figured out how to hook the Dreamcast to a computer and make the Dreamcast become an external drive to read the discs and send them to the computer allowing everyone to pirate the games. Now we have the first signs of the PS3 being hacked, removing the Other OS feature removes one problem of Linux no longer being able to be used to install/flash the BIOS for the future cracked firmware (a la PSP style hacks), but it also removes the option of having the PS3 being turned into an external drive to read possible 'hidden' disc data that would only be read with PS3 firmware code.
Re:what are the security concerns? (Score:4, Informative)
No, that's not true. The "Other OS" feature runs through a hypervisor which limits full access to the cell processor and restricts access to the GPU.
With that removed, let the modding begin (Score:2)
Now might be a time for the folks @ ps2dev to be a bit less arrogant/worrisome and allow things to be opened up.
While they do have some valid concerns, their excuses are wearing thin.
I'll take my full refund now sony... Shipping it b (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll take my full refund now sony... Shipping i (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who used to buy exclusively Sony products this is just one more reason for me not to buy their products anymore. Lets recap shall we.
They buy draconian laws from clueless congress critters? .. Check.
.. Check.
.. Check
.. Check.
.. Check.
.. yep
.. yep
They want to ban consumers from possessing devices with a record button?
They want to proprietize the marketplace with proprietary DRM infected media formats?
They lobby lobby lobby for broadcast flags?
They lobby to close the analog loophole.
They lie to politicians (about piracy killing profits) for more draconian laws while turning record profits ?
They want to disable you ability to record CDs on you computer with rootkits while lobbying for a piracy tax on blank media?
They sue their customers ?
They are pro DRM, ACTA, DMCA,
Slapped red handed giving payola to radio station DJs to skew the song charts."
Anti fair-use?
And they support the view and by proxy have told Congress that countries that support open source software as part of a gov. procurement policy should be on a watch list.
Hmmm did i miss anything? When I take all these things into account a disturbing pattern emerges hence, when it comes to their products I'll take a pass.
Re:I'll take my full refund now sony... Shipping i (Score:5, Informative)
How can they sell something with a certain set of features and then just take it away? I know, it didn't really work all that well....
1 Because the feature was never advertised
Wrong. [playstation.com]
It was going to happen.. (Score:5, Interesting)
People finally got into the Hypervisor on the PS3. That's pretty much the key to everything from legitimate homebrew to illegitimate pirating. I don't see a way for Sony to secure things in Linux. The Genie is out of the bottle. So this is the option they have taken. It's sad to see even though I never used Linux on it, or know anyone who did. It was nice to know the option was there.
Sony's unique business model (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Sony's unique business model (Score:4, Funny)
Eventually, someone will use a PS3 to break a window and commit robbery, and Sony will just start selling the idea of a PS3, until ideas become dangerous.
Backlash? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Backlash? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Except the game comes with the firmware that it requires such that if your PS3 is not connected to the internet, the game downloads the needed update from the disc. Since this system update is currently in the future, no games actually "require" this update and should not be checking for it.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Best quote fta (Score:3, Insightful)
In addition, disabling the “Other OS” feature will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system.
lulz...
EFF Help? (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't think of a better case for a class action lawsuit. They are extorting us out of features that we paid for. I bought this version of PS3 for several reasons, installing an alternative OS was high among them.
HPC Community (Score:5, Interesting)
Killing Linux on the PS3 also presents something of an issue for the other Cell "partners", who seem to be looking at the PS3 as a low-cost Cell development starter kit. The other Cell machines on the market are *much* more expensive (an IBM QS22 blade is $8-20k, depending on configuration, and Mercury Computer Systems doesn't even like talking about how much their Cell boards cost). Given that Cell is an enormously difficult architecture to target, having relatively inexpensive systems to test and train on is very desirable for the other vendors, especially now that so many of the HPC folks are fixated on GPGPU, which is also terrible to program for, but has a far lower cost of entry. It could be that IBM's decision not to pursue Cell in the HPC market [theinquirer.net] is how it became politically tenable for Sony to kill off Linux on the PS3.
Re:HPC Community (Score:5, Interesting)
I went to the National HPC conference about 2 weeks ago. Read this abstract of this talk [hpcc-usa.org]. The director of the research lab in Rome, NY with all the PS3's stated that the new slim PS3 won't support Linux and answered your question - selling Linux boxes lowers the attach rate, so they are looking at other options.
I was representing one of the vendors at the show, and he stopped by our booth and asked a bunch of questions about the hardware we had on display. The AF doesn't mess around. If game hardware has cutting edge performance, they use it. :^)
GPUs are some of the most interesting devices to code for - most people write programs for one core, where a thread is a big heavy weight thing. In GPUs, threads are your basic unit of computation, and the world is upside down. Want to make a loop 100X faster - in some cases you can do it by creating more threads and synchronizing them with a barrier to keep threads going. Don't hold onto calculations for long - recomputing them can be order of 50X faster vs making a lookup to global memory and recomputing frees up the registers so you have less register pressure/can get more threads executing simultaneously. Between the ATI Cypress (1600 cores) and the new GF100 based chips (448-512 cores), writing code that runs on these devices makes C++ seem like child's play.
And the development environments are all V1.
What if General Motors did this? (Score:4, Insightful)
There would be an uproar heard in Congress if General Motors used their OnStar download links to remove a feature. Suppose GM did something so that third-party audio players like the iPod couldn't use the car's speakers. This isn't totally unreasonable. GM's onboard entertainment system has a port for connecting a CD changer. If you didn't buy the CD changer option, that port is unused. There are third-party non-GM adapter kits [crutchfield.com] for connecting an iPod to that port. The dashboard CD changer controls then control the iPod.
GM could probably download an update to change the interface so that this would no longer work. GM would prefer that customers buy a GM audio source; they remarket XM Radio. Arguably, the iPod is a device for pirating music, and removing that capability would enhance the security of the system. It would also eliminate the possibility of unauthorized iPod software interfering with the car's networks, and perhaps the OnStar system.
So why shouldn't GM do that?
They're still advertising the feature (Score:5, Informative)
They're still advertising the "Open Platform" feature on their website:
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html [playstation.com]
"There is more to the PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3(TM)) computer entertainment system than you may have assumed. In addition to playing games, watching movies, listening to music, and viewing photos, you can use the PS3(TM) system to run the Linux operating system."
Let's see how long that page lasts...
Cowardly Sony (Score:4, Funny)
They took down most of the options on their 'Contact Us' page. You can't e-mail, or anything.
BUT they were stupid enough to leave the phone numbers on the site so feel free to clog their phones with calls expressing your displeasure over their violation of your property rights.
Cell is a dead platform - IBM killed it.... (Score:3)
When the Cell was first announced, I was very excited about it - I do signal processing and protocol simulation for a living, and having something with 8 powerful signal processing engines plus a dual core CPU to run the protocol stacks was just about a perfect fit. So I got my boss to approve buying a PS3 to begin evaluation on, and we began trying to find a vendor for the Cell chip (we can do our own PCB design and fab if needed).
After many talks with IBM, we found that unless you were willing to buy millions of parts, they didn't want to talk to you, didn't want to sell you the chips, didn't want to support you, here's a nice mainframe blade, isn't that good enough (NO! I need something like microTCA, not a big ass blade!).
Add to that how the PS3's Linux had really crummy support for graphics (because rather than being SMART and making the PS3 have the best OpenGL implementation out there, Sony crippled the system with a dumb framebuffer).
Recently, IBM has announced they are end-of-lifing the Cell blades, and moving everybody over to the newest Power series CPUs. So, you can pretty much bank on the Cell only being in the PS3, and maybe one or two TV sets (and even there, I would not hold my breath - until those TVs are shipping the vendors can and likely will change their minds).
While I would still recommend anybody wanting a Blu-ray player buy a PS3, and they are a decent video game platform, I would NOT recommend anybody even think about trying to support the Cell outside that platform - it will not happen, IBM has moved on, Sony doesn't want to support it.
And while there is much typical slashbot dick-waving posturing about "I'm gonna SUE! CLASS ACTION BABY! I'm gonna DESTROY SONY!" - good luck with that. You are taking a minor feature that most PS3 buyers don't even know about, that is periphery to the main function of the device, and trying to say you are in some significant way harmed by this? You expect an attorney to take on a major class action like this, for what - lulz? Against a multinational with a large army of lawyers? At best, you will get US$10 off your next Sony purchase.
What needs to happen is all the companies that bought PS3s to explore Cell programming need to start pressuring IBM and their limited set of third-party vendors like Mercury Computers to release the next generation Cell (with double-precision SPUs) on something reasonably sized and priced.
Meanwhile, flood eBay with all the now-useless PS3s they had in their clusters - drive the price down and cost Sony money.
A Class action will fail (Score:3)
As I understand it, for a class action to happen, you have to have several preconditions:
1) there has to be an easily identifiable group of people to belong to the class. This would NOT be "the set of all people who bought PS3's that could run Linux" for reason #2 below, but rather "The set of people who bought PS2 to run Linux."
2) There has to be a harm to the class. Thus, just having bought a PS3 that could run Linux would not be enough - you would have to have bought the PS3 to run LInux. Moreover, the h
What does the license agreement say? (Score:3, Insightful)
Does the PS3's license agreement say that Sony can add or remove features at will? If so, it seems like all the ranting and noise about a lawsuit is for naught.
Re:Install before update ok? (Score:4, Informative)
No, the other OS will become inaccessible after the firmware update (the linked article warns users to back up any data on their "Other OS" partition prior to the firmware update).
You could just not install the firmware update, but then you can't use a lot of online features that check for current firmware.
Re:Install before update ok? (Score:5, Informative)
from TFA:
For those PS3 users who are currently using the “Other OS” feature but choose to install the system software update, to avoid data loss they first need to back-up any data stored within the hard drive partition used by the “Other OS,” as they will not be able to access that data following the update.
It looks like if you have an OS installed and do the update, the OS gets zapped as a part of the update.
playstation blog update says no access (Score:2)
It says if you have data on a linux partition before you update, you must copy it off because you won't have access to it after the update.
So that sounds like you'll be unable to run linux after the update.
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Re:Greedy idiot kids (Score:5, Insightful)
No, it doesn't seem that Sony ever gave you anything, if they can take it back whenever they want without you having any say. You are a serf who was granted some small favor from his lord. That small favor was taken back because one of you dared to question him; but sooner or later, for any reason or no reason, lord Sony might have changed their mind anyway.
Either the PlayStation 3 was secure, or it wasn't. If it was, then there is no reason to take any functionality away. If it wasn't, then it was simply a matter of time before someone, somewhere, by some method, did something that Sony didn't like. Either way, it's all because of Sony. They knew what kind of game they were playing; they've played it a dozen times before, and lost every time.
As for him achieving nothing useful, and as to whether he had any damn good reason; you have no idea precisely what he achieved, nor what could yet be achieved by him or others as a result of what he achieved.
Re:Greedy idiot kids (Score:5, Interesting)
Dear Anonymous Hacker with absolutely no clue about how the law works,
I paid for OtherOS - Sony will allow me to keep it and access their online network or I will destroy them in a lawsuit, plus press for criminal charges.
Successful EA Litigant - Versus Spore DRM.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So you're the guy who made some law firm crazy rich in exchange for no benefit to the community whatsoever?
Successfully suing DRM-happy publishers is a great service to the community, because it prevents fraud (you buy the game, and it doesn't work - that is fraud). The pay-out in this case is a punishment for bad business practices, and its value lies mainly in that, not in someone receiving a $10 cheque.
I can certainly thank GP for doing what he did, since it makes a difference for me as a gamer who buys (and not pirates) games, as well.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
OtherOS was available directly at launch. They heavily advertised the ability to install your own operating system.
And their current "It does everything" ad campaign is a total lie since the newer models and very soon older models with new firmware won't have some of the originally advertised capability.
Re:Greedy idiot kids (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's face it, the only real reason Sony gave the feature in the first place was because they wanted to bolster their case for passing the PS3 off as computer rather than an entertainment device for import tax purposes.
Other OS was just a tax dodge, one that failed in court, and when it did Sony decided to stop supporting it, that's really what it comes down to at the end of the day.
I've no doubt that you're right, GeoHot's actions are a major reason Sony have now decided to remove this feature retroactively too because keeping the feature meant they now had to use resources to ensure the feature was secure. The real blame, the majority of the blame must really go on Sony for telling their users this feature exist for the user's benefit, rather than the reality which is that it existed for Sony's benefit as an attempted tax dodge.
Sony is the real enemy for implementing a feature for the wrong reasons, and then deciding to give up supporting it when those reasons bore no fruit for them. Blame them for only ever implementing the feature for their benefit, and not the users benefit, but half-arsed pretending it was for the users benefit giving users a very misleading impression of the likelihood of continued support for the feature.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
All I can say is this is a perfect case for a class action lawsuit. And I hope Sony will start to feel it financially big time.
I wont even mind in this case that some lawyers might get rich from it.
Re:Bummer ... (1st (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bummer ... (1st (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony already caused massive issues with number crunching by removing the ability to install Linux on the latest slim PS3 models.
The old ones never need to be connected to the internet or have the ability to play the latest games, so they will not need this firmware update and will be unaffected.
This isn't big news, except maybe if they need second hand replacement PS3s.
Re:Bummer ... (1st (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
You may never post of ./ again. You obviously have too high an IQ to be here. Personally I feel your gift would be better served if you applied yourself to solving world hunger... or the DRM crisis which ever you like.
/whisper DRM, DRM, DRM
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This might be one of the main reasons they are retracting this feature. Companies are selling game consoles at a loss. The real money is made with the games they sell. If Universities and NASA are buying up your consoles as cheap processing power, that's not good for their business.
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Wouldn't have happened if that hacker hadn't cracked the security core through linux. You can go ahead and tell yourself that Sony is being all demonically evil here, but the truth is they are acting in response to a legitimate piracy threat. If that threat didn't exist, then there would be no reason for Sony to waste the time and effort to remove an existing function from a product.
You can blame Sony if you want. I'm gonna blame the root cause of the problem.
Re:Bummer ... (1st (Score:5, Insightful)
Idiot?
Well, you buy a console with X functionalities, and then Sony decides to remove some of them. If you paid for a console which can install other OS, will they return the money to you?
Figure that they want all consumers to buy the new PS3 and in the next update, they close the functionallity of playing games. Would it be acceptable?
Is it acceptable to have functionlities removed after you paid for them? Come on!
Idiot is thinking that because some people abuse something, you can remove it from legal users.
Re:$10 vouchers in 2015 (Score:5, Insightful)
Small claims court is a great thing, and will quite often let you recover the full value of damages rather than getting a coupon or some similar crap from a class-action suit. File for the full value of the thing, claiming that whether you accept the update or don't, irreparable damage will be done to functions you purchased the system to perform. Quite often, they won't even bother to show up and will just quietly pay off what you win. I'd strongly encourage you to look into the small-claims rules in your jurisdiction, and you can also find some basic information here. [nolo.com]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It's probably the minor hypervisor glitch I discovered back in 2.7 that allowed me to send more commands than I should have been able to send to the GPU, right past the hypervisor.
That was the best potential vulnerability we had at the time and I just stumbled upon it trying to figure out if I could tweak the encoder I was writing for the PPC Ubuntu install I had on at the time.