Microsoft Confirms Xbox One's Phone Home Requirement, Game Resale Rules 581
Following the confusion surrounding Microsoft's announcement of the Xbox One, the company has now clarified many of the hot-button issues in a set of posts on their official site. First, they confirmed that the console will need to phone home in order to continue playing games. On your primary console, you'd need to connect to the internet and check in once every 24 hours. They also announced that you'll be able to access and play any of your games by logging in on somebody else's console, but the internet connection will be required every hour to keep playing that way. Other media don't require the connection. Microsoft also explained how game licensing will work. On the upside, anyone using your console will be able to play your games, and you can share your games with up to 10 members of your family for free. The downside is the news about used games; Microsoft says they've "designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers." The key word there is can, which implies that you can't without the publisher's express permission. Finally, the company made a set of statements about how Kinect's audio and video sensors will collect and share your data. "When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded." They also say data gathered during normal use won't leave the console without your explicit permission.
Deal breaker (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Deal breaker (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: Deal breaker (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Deal breaker (Score:4, Insightful)
People modding this troll are being unfair. As someone who likes the console, it needs more games. I played completely through every game I was interested in on it. And I'm a working stiff without a lot of time on his hands. I can't imagine how someone in college or high school would feel.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The WiiU does 1080p the same way current Xbox 360 and PS3 do. While it's technically possible, in practice the console isn't powerful enough to do it on anything but the most graphically simple games.
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That is incorrect. All Wii U games are 1080p standard unless the developer just makes a lazy 360 port. Nintendo's published titles will all be 1080p standard.
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would Sony be loving it? If history is anything to go by then Sony will be at least as worse, the difference is that unlike Microsoft they're just not being open about it. If anything it seems more like Microsoft is testing the waters to see what they can get away with, if there really is just way too much negative feedback they'll likely losen the restrictions somewhat. In contrast Sony's business model is, as always, keep quiet and just dump it on the user saying nothing and hope no one notices.
I don't really like any of it (though at least the ability to share games with family members is a step forward, because that's better than most DRM/unlock codes on existing platforms where you're expected to buy a copy per family member) but pretending Sony is going to be some magical saviour is sad. We saw the Sony fanboys spreading the exact same FUD and doing the exact same thing last console round and look how that ended up. Removed features etc.
Anyone pretending Sony is going to be a saviour right now given that we've not even seen a picture of their fucking device yet let alone had any real concrete information about it is having a laugh, especially when track records are taken into account.
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Funny)
If anything it seems more like Microsoft is testing the waters to see what they can get away with, if there really is just way too much negative feedback they'll likely losen the restrictions somewhat.
Kind of like they did with the metro interface?
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Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a PS3 but bought it after Linux was already removed.
Being a PS3 owner and not having had the feature removed from me personally though doesn't mean I magically have to give them a free pass because guess what? I'm not a fanboy.
Removing features from customers is still a fucking shitty move however you cut it and guess what? Microsoft are twats for adding more and more ads to XBL when I already pay them for the service, Nintendo are twats for selling me a turd that never ended up with any compelling games, Apple are twats for being such restrictive power hungry patent trolls, and Google are twats for being such a bunch of tax dodging idiots.
You know, it is possible to hate companies for all piss poor anti-consumer moves. I'm a customer so I don't owe them a thing, I have no vested interest in defending them and I have every interest in calling them all out when they do bad things.
But what makes your post so utterly sad is that what you're basically saying is that you're disappointed that I called Sony out with the implication that I shouldn't have, that I should give them a free pass and focus on just the bad things of other companies. Do you know why you think that? Because you're a fanboy. The very thing you're criticising.
Re:Deal breaker (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe you should cuddle up to Big Pharma. They've got some products that can change your outlook on things.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Sony must be loving this.
Let's be realistic for a minute. Any same person would agree, but this is Sony we're talking about. The company that makes a cock-up of almost everything when it comes to the consumer year after year. Look at how they fucked up the Vita, but no one knew the anti-customer crap they had until it launched. Once people knew, the console flopped.
Sony are making noises they're not doing the XBone crap, but they have also confirmed that it's all built in to the PS4 already, and i will be up to the publishers wheth
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Informative)
Sony confirms 'you can play used games on PS4' [cinemablend.com]
Shuhei Yoshida confirms: no 'always-on' requirement for PS4 [vg247.com]
This was all news in February, now it should be fairly common knowledge.
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Insightful)
I totally agree. Owned (and loved owning) two 360's, but I won't be touching the One with a barge pole. Microsoft seems to have taken the relative success of the 360 as a "Well, now we can do what the fuck we like".
Re:Deal breaker (Score:5, Informative)
But in the meantime maybe you can brush up on your coding skills, make some really cool games and give them out for free like you think everyone else should. Tell us how that goes for you.
If that's what you as an industry are hearing from us then you're missing it entirely.
We are willing to pay for quality consoles and games, but:
+ we want to "own" the console and have full control over it's use.
+ we want to "own" the games we buy and be able to loan them, give them away or sell them like any other piece of property we've purchased.
If you are going to control how we play, when we play, what we play and who we can loan/trade/sell to then drop your fucking prices and call it "console and game rentals", not "sales". Your greed, and your contempt for your customers, seem to be affecting your hearing and your judgement. If you want to make more money then make it easier for your customers to enjoy themselves with your products.
This'll be fun (Score:3)
So, apparently Microsoft think that they're not selling you games. Given that a similar case was difinitively lost in Germany recently, it'll be interesting to see how this one pans out.
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Re:This'll be fun (Score:5, Informative)
Backward compatibility:
The Atari 7800 is backward compatible with almost all Atari 2600 games.
The Game Boy Color is backward compatible with all Game Boy cartridges.
The Game Boy Advance line, except for the Game Boy Micro, is backward compatible with all Game Boy and Game Boy Color games.
The Nintendo DS and the Nintendo DS Lite are backward compatible with all Game Boy Advance games.
The Nintendo 3DS and the Nintendo 3DS XL are backward compatible with most of the Nintendo DS and Nintendo DSi software. However, the 3DS and its predecessor the DSi lack the Game Boy Advance slot found on the DS and DS Lite, causing certain titles to lose functionality when played on the systems. The Guitar Hero: On Tour series is incompatible with the DSi and 3DS because of this.
Initially, the Nintendo Wii was backward compatible with all games from the Nintendo GameCube, due in large part to its PowerPC CPU and ATi graphics architectures being evolved versions of those from the GameCube. However, a "Family Edition" model released in North America and Europe in late 2011 removed GameCube support, and all Wiis manufactured thereafter also lack backward-compatibility.
The Wii U is backward compatible with all Wii games and peripherals.
The PlayStation 2 is backward compatible with most of the original PlayStation library.
Initial PlayStation 3 models are backward compatible with most PlayStation and PlayStation 2 games. This is provided by the inclusion of the original Emotion Engine chip that is built inside the PS2. However, subsequent models removed this and the "Graphics Synthesizer" GPU, thus removing support for PS2 titles, but still able to play most original PS games.
The PS Vita is backward compatible with PSP games, Minis, PlayStation and Neo Geo games downloaded from the PlayStation Store. The Xbox 360 is backward compatible with some Xbox games via software emulation.
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Worse than Thought (Score:5, Insightful)
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So, in other words, all of the hyperbole and hand waving from users on forums that was washed aside saying it couldn't possibly be that bad... instead it turns out it's worse.
they're trying to put the blame back on ea after ea put it on them.. (regarding used games).
fucking clusterfuckup it is. so they finally got xbox360 model to be profitable and decide to crash everything.
Steam Vs XBox One (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Steam Vs XBox One (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference between Steam and XBox One is only a matter of degree. Steam doesn't allow you to buy or sell used games. Steam needs to phone home every three months or so instead of every day, but it still locks you out after that.
So basically, if you want to play games from the major publishers, your only choice is who to bend over for. Steam uses Vaseline, Microsoft doesn't. Perhaps Sony will choose not to bugger customers at all -- I'm not really keeping up with the PS4 rumors.
Re:Steam Vs XBox One (Score:5, Insightful)
Steam also sells games for super cheap. I buy my games for steam on disk, so if it ever disappears I can run the game with cracks. This is not a feature that consoles seem to offer.
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The way I play DVDs is also illegal. I am by now I guess a hardend criminal.
I do try to buy DRM free games, but not all are available that way and my morals are weak I guess. If GOG would support linux that would help a lot.
Re:Steam Vs XBox One (Score:5, Interesting)
Steam DRM is ridiculously EASY to crack given that with their authentication setup they could make it nearly bulletproof if they chose(and they are well aware of this but have done nothing much to fix it as it's a feature and not a bug) and more importantly, they have PLENTY of competition on their platform which forces them to price their fare accordingly.
Re:Steam Vs XBox One (Score:5, Interesting)
Steam doesn't have a microphone or camera that's always on. Even if I have them connected to my system, I can turn them off or disconnect them and Steam won't care.
The fact that Xbox One won't work without the Kinect system is suspicious. There's no reason for that kind of design unless surveillance is one of the top priorities of the device.
Re:Steam Vs XBox One (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps Sony will choose not to bugger customers at all
AAAaaaa hahahaha hhhaa ahahahaha ahhahah aaaaaahahhahhahah hahhaa aaaaaaahahhah
haha
snicker
giggle
aaaaaaahahhahahahhahahahha /me wipes tears
Thanks for making it easy MS. (Score:4, Informative)
Well I guess I am getting a PS4. That was an easy decision.
Because Sony is nicer? (Score:5, Insightful)
So you basically forgot all the crap Sony has pulled out over the years... (e.g. rootkits). At least Microsoft is being honest about it.
As someone else said, the solution is to forgo both PS and Xbox consoles.
Re:Because Sony is nicer? (Score:5, Insightful)
I did not, I still do not trust sony near computers. Microsoft is never honest. They claim it will not spy on you, but they were the first to get in bed with the NSA for PRISM.
I have been eyeing up the WiiU so that is an option.
Re:Thanks for making it easy MS. (Score:5, Interesting)
The WiiU is already less invasive. Odds are Sony will use this as a club to beat MS with. If they have a console that offers customers the ability to own games that will be huge.
Re:Thanks for making it easy MS. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Nintendo will just become king of the hill again in that case. They can promote the WiiU being the only console that has this and stores will push it hard.
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If nothing else, it doesn't come with a mandatory video *and* audio monitor that I can't turn off.
But you can still watch TV... (Score:5, Insightful)
I love that part. You mean I can still watch TV without "checking in", just as I could if I hadn't bought the stupid fucking box in the first place?
Then I'm not buying it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Seriously, the need to phone home once/day is a deal breaker. Not being able to take a game over to a friends place without signing into my account is a deal breaker. Telling me how I can sell or giveaway my used games is a deal breaker.
There's nothing about this that I'm interested in. I don't play games online, my XBox isn't connected to a network because they started putting ads into the games, and I refuse to give them a channel for it.
So, my single purchase (or non-purchase) is insignificant, and Microsoft won't care. But of the people I know who own an XBox, pretty much all of them have said they don't want this either.
There's nothing about this new platform that sounds good for the consumer, and it certainly doesn't leave them much choice.
So whatever the first next-generation console is which can be ran entirely offline without any network connection over its lifetime stands a pretty good chance of getting bought. But Microsoft can eat shit if they think I'll pay them for the privilege of owning one of these (which I'm sure the EULA says we don't own anyway).
Either I and people like myself will pretty much be irrelevant, which is fine, or there's going to be a huge consumer backlash against this, and Microsoft is going to find themselves holding the bag on a gaming platform nobody wants.
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So whatever the first next-generation console is which can be ran entirely offline without any network connection over its lifetime stands a pretty good chance of getting bought.
The Nintendo Wii U.
Joining the people's not buying one (Score:4, Insightful)
I owned a XBOX 1 and Xbox 360. I liked them better then Sony/Nintendo offerings. But this whole used game thing along with phone home. I haven't had my 360 plugged into the internet for 8 months now. I play most console games offline. If I want to play online with friends, that's what my PC is for.
So I had bought 3 xbox 360's, I won't be buying 1 One.
I'm sure XBox won't record our conversations... (Score:5, Insightful)
...just like I'm sure the Obama Administration would never obtain the phone and email records for every American! [pcworld.com]
What?
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, just "Metadata" about the conversation.
Since terrorists are rare and they are hard to catch they will use this to go after victimless crimes and the like. They already have the data so they will find a use for it.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
First game system you can't keep a collection of (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about what happens after this generation is over, in 10-15 years. Eventually, the XBO servers will be taken down, and none of the games will work.
It won't be like you pulling out your Dreamcast or SNES to relive fond gaming memories--this literally won't be an option. Now starts the time when gaming history eventually fades into nothing.
Don't get me wrong, any disc based game eventually will be in the same boat--as these discs will eventually decay. Whereas cartridge based game systems may work, no problem, in 100 years or more if kept in a dry place.
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Whereas cartridge based game systems may work, no problem, in 100 years or more if kept in a dry place.
Cartridge-based games generally save state in battery-powered internal memory. Those batteries run down over time, probably long before any other component fails.
well that doesn't matter as long as the battery doesn't leak on the board.
except with some arcade boards etc which have suicide batteries(you run out of battery on the board and it wipes, meant to curb illegal clones), but roms for most of those have been hacked/preserved already so you can make new.
The last straw (Score:4, Interesting)
But it's a matter of principle. I don't want a console that treats me like I'm a thief, needing to check up on me once a day to make sure I'm not smoking pot or something. If I fall on hard times and need to sell somethings to get by, I want to know that for the 60 dollar game I bought that there's an option to do so and potentially feed myself for a week. I don't want to worry what will happen to my favorite titles in fifteen years, if I'll be able to play them- that's nothing someone SHOULD have to worry about (And honestly I still prefer Halo 2 to any of the later games anyway...)
I hope the generation that follows this learns from the mistakes being made here. Until then, I'll see you on the PC/Wii U.
Why do they call it the Xbox One? (Score:5, Funny)
Cause you take One look at it then turn around 360 degrees and walk away.
Re:Why do they call it the Xbox One? (Score:5, Funny)
turn around 360 degrees and walk away.
Ummm, I think you mean "turn around 360 degrees and walk straight into it".
Cease to Offer Services Clause (Score:5, Insightful)
They also have a "We may also cease to offer certain services or products for similar reasons." clause. So even if you like a feature (like sharing a game with up to 10 family members), you might find that feature suddenly removed or altered in such a way as to make it useless.
Re:Cease to Offer Services Clause (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sorry.. the "sharing up to 10" 'feature' is just as bad.
My family doesn't use the vaginas of the females like clown cars and I would never hit the limit, but this is total bullshit. If I buy a game the family should be able to play it, whether it is 2 or 2 dozen. It's just as bad as the other DRM 'features.'
Yeah, Microsoft doesn't care about one missed sale, but if anyone that knows what DRM is refuses to buy it then it has to hurt sometime.
The elephant in the room: Rentals (Score:5, Insightful)
I think the bigger issue missed here is that rentals are simply no longer possible with Xbox One.
Microsoft has killed the game rental market in one fell swoop.
Personally, I think this is a dumb move... I've bought many games after trying them out as rentals; I doubt I am alone with that practice. That is a lot of potential marketing tossed down the toilet.
Even if the used game market survives (though I doubt it will ever be a factor again), the rental market is gone, gone,gone.
Re: (Score:3)
I think the bigger issue missed here is that rentals are simply no longer possible with Xbox One.
Microsoft has killed the game rental market in one fell swoop.
Personally, I think this is a dumb move... I've bought many games after trying them out as rentals; I doubt I am alone with that practice. That is a lot of potential marketing tossed down the toilet.
Even if the used game market survives (though I doubt it will ever be a factor again), the rental market is gone, gone,gone.
Not as long as there's still 360's on ebay, and clever people with soldering irons willing to fix them up when they start to die...
I seriously hope they hear crickets on launch day with this...this abomination. This on top of the whole Windows 8 fiasco...I haven't seen a company try so hard to self destruct in a very, very long time.
Banned from Xbox live? (Score:5, Interesting)
What if I get banned from Xbox Live? Does this 24-hour check-in fail? Am I no longer allowed to play my single player games?
Uh huh... (Score:4, Interesting)
"When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded."
Considering the stories about the NSA datamining in both the telecom and computing services industries, I have two words to say:
"Likely story."
It will be turned on to record, to find "terrorists."
This gets a big "nope."
http://www.humorgas.com/image/1359731250348625995.JPG [humorgas.com]
--
BMO
Kindle - publishers can allow lending (Score:5, Informative)
Just like publishers of e-books CAN allow you to lend out a kindle-book to someone.
They don't though.
Granted, I haven't bought many kindle books, but as far as I can see none of my books are lendable.
Re: (Score:3)
That's why I use Calibre + plugin to strip out the DRM from Amazon e-books. Then I can lend them to whomever I like!
That's why I refuse to buy from Amazon, even their so-called 'DRM-Free' books, because they don't offer eBooks in a universal format.
Buy direct from Baen [baenebooks.com] and O'Reilly [oreilly.com] or, as a last resort, find the DRM-Free books on Kobo [kobobooks.com], because at least they offer them as epub downloads. It's not easy to sift the DRM-Free gems from the DRM'd dross at Kobo, but it can be done with patience.
Purpose of the Always On requirement (Score:3, Interesting)
What exactly does the always-on (okay, "on at least once every 24 hours") requirement serve?
I doubt it's for checking game licensing issues. That is better done when the game is actually launched (and probably will be anyway). It's stupid otherwise; you slot in a CD for a game your buddy owns and a day later it informs you that there is a licensing issue (or alternately, if the default is "always deny", you buy a game and you aren't allowed to play until the next 24 hour check-in)? So it's not about the games.
Anti-hack checks to ensure you haven't rooted your own hardware. It could compare the OS signature to some secure key on its servers. But that hardly seems workable; after all, if (when) the XBoxOne is hacked, that will be surely the first thing that is disabled.
Advertising perhaps; after all, the recent Dashboard upgrades have focused on putting more and more advertisements on your screen. Microsoft is surely going to continue in this direction with its newest console. But does that really require an always-on connection?
Maybe it's for uploading game or network metrics (or NSA monitoring, for the paranoid). But surely this is not such a necessary thing as to upset their customers to such a degree.
So, honestly, what makes this "always on" requirement so important that Microsoft is willing to risk sales over its inclusion? Why (aside from the boneheaded stubbornness that prevents them from backing down on any of their dumb decisions like the Ribbon or Metro) does Microsoft feel this is something they /have/ to foist on the public? Better to make the console work like the 360; it will use a network connection if it finds one but otherwise it is not a requirement for operation (at least, not for the console; games may still require an internet connection to license, but we already see that with current games).
No used game sales means less new game purchases (Score:4, Insightful)
As a former Navy Veteran - (Score:3, Informative)
We used to play video games while deployed on ship underway. No internet to connect to, and the XBOX360/PS3 were the consoles of choice in our rec-room. This completely screws the active duty military in a lot of places. Looks like more military will be using their PC's instead of the consoles, however this also happened when 'SPORE' came out on PC.... it required an internet connection to play and the people who bought it for deployment were many unhappy people.
How generous! (Score:5, Insightful)
On the upside, anyone using your console will be able to play your games
How nice of them not to implement biometric identification. Yet.
One other major fail... (Score:4, Informative)
Having looked at the Xbox One page on Amazon UK, all I can say is this:
NINETY QUID for a ****ing GAME?
At that price, they can keep it.
Not recording? (Score:4, Insightful)
> "When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded."
Says the company that jumped on board the PRISM train so happily and willingly....
The important question is: Who is the customer (Score:4, Interesting)
Calling home every 24 hours, restricting games to accounts (even sharable), etc, these all required a lot of extra work to implement. As this is a commercial product, somewhere a manager has signed off on the cost of this effort, believing that this will increase profits, customer goodwill, or some other marketable resource.
Since these actually cripple existing functionality from a game-player perspective, make the product less attractive to game players, someone, somewhere must believe that some other 'customer' is going to pay more to make up the difference in lost sales, loyalty, and increased customer dissatisfaction.
It's not the retail stores, which are being cut out almost entirely - gamestop, best buy, walmart, or large rental agencies like gamefly, who's entire business model is inapplicable for xbox one games. If you can play your games at a friend's house without bringing the disc that means digital distribution for everything.
The only one that makes sense is the large game distributors, EA and their ilk.
I'd like to see the math that says EA & etc will make more money off this than will be lost. Seems like a risky gamble to alienate end customers in order to lock down a distribution channel.
Why would anyone ever agree to any of this (Score:5, Insightful)
Always on camera, every 24 hours license checks, you have to ask permission to resell your games. If you agree to this you're a chump full stop.
Oh I get it now (Score:3)
MS failed in copying Apples hardware sucess so they're trying to out do Sony as the most anti consumer/propriatory system company.
Deceptive language detected (Score:3)
Their description of Kinect privacy sounds an awful lot like the privacy policy on browser scraping in-game ads in PC games (disabled by blocking the application in the Windows firewall). In the case of the browser scraping, none of the data leaves your system, but if it looks like you're into skateboarding the game will fetch an ad for skateboard gear and show it in the game. That request for a skateboard gear ad DID leave the system. Maybe the same thing with Kinect? Hears you saying you'd like some pizza, fetches an ad for Pizza Hut, and hey none of your conversation was recorded or left the system right?
Re:*cough* bullshit *cough* (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:*cough* bullshit *cough* (Score:4, Insightful)
*knock knock*
Citizen, we recieved a report that you turned off your telescreen.
That gives us probable cause to enter and search the premises for illegal activities.
Re:*cough* bullshit *cough* (Score:5, Insightful)
"When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded." They also say data gathered during normal use won't leave the console without your explicit permission.
"Explicit permission" defined as signing any EULA associated with XBOX One.
Re:*cough* bullshit *cough* (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh huh. And if I'm a Xbox non-owner who has no EULA with Microsoft, and I go visit my friend's house who has an Xbox and we have a conversation in his living room that gets recorded..?
Re:*cough* bullshit *cough* (Score:4, Informative)
"When Xbox One is on and you're simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded." They also say data gathered during normal use won't leave the console without your explicit permission.
"Explicit permission" defined as signing any EULA associated with XBOX One.
You misspelled 1984.
Re: (Score:3)
In no way possibly now?
So I am hallucinating my and my brother mailing games back and forth? The game sharing my IT dept does is also some figment of my imagination?
Re:That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Insightful)
> the used game resale options are in the hands of the game developers
Which is funny because were I live it's in the hand of the law. The law that says "I can resell my own games."
Re: That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Interesting)
So, the game developers will just make their game require the Xbone's "cloud services." Sure, you can sell the *game*, but if it won't work without access to the *service* (which is independent of the game, at least conceptually), and since the service is precisely that (a service and not a product), it cannot be resold.
Re: That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Informative)
They don't even have to do that. MSFT has now said that it's up to the developer if they will allow games to be resold or not. They don't need any sort of a fig leaf, they just say the game is only licensed for 1 xbox live account.
To me, the thing that sucks even more is that the console has to phone home once a day, or you can't play anything.
Look at all we've read in the press lately about the government deciding they own all phone records, and they've been compiling this data without our knowledge for some time.
Why should we believe the console which is phoning home won't be collecting information about us and reporting it to anyone who has access to use/abuse the system?
Sure, they say the Kinect isn't going to record you. But we pretty much know the government collects first and asks permission later (if ever). They don't even need suspicion to get your phone records anymore.
Maybe the Xbox One should be called the Telescreen instead?
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"How is it worse?" is not the question. "Is it wrong?" is the question.
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what we really need is a law or court case to settle it once and for all. Either validate or destroy EULAs and TOSs once and for all. imo, these totally one sided forced agreements are bullshit, but until we get it actually set in stone or set a precedent, the current wishy/washy itshowitsalwaysbeendone will continue.
Re: That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Informative)
Adobes licensing matters not if it conflicts with the law of the land.
Some nations have actual consumer protection.
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No, Adobe ISN'T "moving applications into the Cloud". It's moving the licensing into a subscription service that uses "The Cloud" as a conduit.
Yes, Adobe is trying to cloud things up by pushing the "cloud" aspect of it. But those are little fluffy bits tacked on to the core of industrial strength software. You download the app installers, run locally. Every month it phones home and gets permission to run for another month. Adobe tacked on some crappy 'collaboration' applets and a Dropbox wannabee servi
Re: That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Insightful)
Inkscape is free and already as good as Illustrator.
I like to advocate FOSS solutions too, but I like to tell the truth while I do so. Illustrator is better than Inkscape, but Inkscape is good enough.
Re: (Score:3)
Thats great, except it doesnt work like that in Civilized world:
http://www.zdnet.com/oracle-cannot-block-the-resale-of-its-software-in-europe-7000000189/ [zdnet.com]
Re: That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially when these companies want to treat it as a license when it benefits them, but then as a sale when that is more beneficial.
Doubly so when all the advertisements say "own/buy it today!".
Re: (Score:3)
> the used game resale options are in the hands of the game developers
Which is funny because were I live it's in the hand of the law. The law that says "I can resell my own games."
Actually, the law doesn't say that.
The law says you have a right to resell the physical media. Which you still have.
The law does *not* say you have the right to resell the experience of using the media, which is why its perfectly legal to DRM e-books, games, software, and why you can't legally resell your MP3s.
Re: (Score:3)
I guess it might depend where you live, some countries have rulings that say you must be allowed to resell downloaded games too and I think EU is working on a directive to make this into a law.
Re: (Score:3)
> the used game resale options are in the hands of the game developers
Which is funny because were I live it's in the hand of the law. The law that says "I can resell my own games."
Actually, the law doesn't say that.
The law says you have a right to resell the physical media. Which you still have.
The law does *not* say you have the right to resell the experience of using the media, which is why its perfectly legal to DRM e-books, games, software, and why you can't legally resell your MP3s.
Well, that all depends on what country you're in now doesn't it? Since the entire world doesn't live under one set of laws your assertions are invalid.
Re:That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Funny)
And you still can!
You just can't play any second-hand games. But feel free to exercise your legal right to buy and sell all the box art and shiny-but-useless DVDs you want.
/ Yet another next-gen console I won't buy. Looking more and more like I'll go pure-PC for gaming in the near future.
Re:That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Insightful)
In some nations what you describe would be illegal. Some places have this thing called consumer protection and depriving the consumer of something he paid for would be basically the same as fraud.
A specific European case (Score:5, Informative)
Specifically, the European Court of Justice ruled last year on a case involving Oracle and UsedSoft, with the latter wanting to resell used Oracle software. The court found that licences could be resold, notwithstanding a claim to the contrary in Oracle's licence agreement. Interestingly, they also ruled that if Oracle was offering free maintenance updates to the original purchaser then they must continue to offer the same to the purchaser of the used software licence.
Obviously with any legal case you have to look at the specifics and not assume too much of a precedent, but still, this seems a clear shot across the bows of Big Software that they don't get to close down the used software market through either blunt legalese in the licence agreement or trying to tie related services to the original purchaser only.
For anyone wondering, yes, this ruling is sharply at odds with the US Ninth Circuit's view in the Autodesk case.
(I'm not a lawyer, just an interested observer, so don't read any legal technicalities into the above.)
Re:That doesn't fix anything (Score:4, Informative)
I don't think you understand. In the EU, software you buy is yours. You are not able to "rent" anything. Even if the EULA says so, it is still void and null. You outright OWN it if it is sold anywhere in the EU. It is why when you buy a machine with an OS on it, that OS can no longer be "tied" to the system or motherboard. You are able to resell it to anyone else, as you own it outright. You have expensive CAD software with hardware dongles that tie the software your machine only? No longer, you can resell it and the publisher MUST allow for that dongle to now be tied to the new owner. They have NO say after the software is sold. It is treated as resellable property for eternity.
The same will be for the XBox One and any other console vendor. If they intend on selling any sort of software in the EU, they must allow it to be resold by the original purchaser, on their own terms, at their own prices, with zero restrictions from anyone. It is the law. Period.
Re:That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Insightful)
What about rentals?
If MS is going to bend over backwards for the game publishers. What about rentals where you rent the game and then return it. You know to see if you actually like it or not. There are a lot of junk games out there, why should you spend $60.00 on something you will hate, and then not be able to sell back.
I prefer to rent it. If I like it then I will buy it.
With these bending over backwards for the publishers, The software better be Dirt Cheap.
Re:That doesn't fix anything (Score:5, Insightful)
As someone who still owns and occasionally plays many of the games bought new in the late 80s early 90s this bothers me... I have no interest in buying games with an expiration date.
Re:10 Minutes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:10 Minutes (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:10 Minutes (Score:5, Insightful)
Believing that the issue no longer exists because one person cracks the first implementation is foolhardy at best, and idiotic at worst.
All it takes is for MS to bump the minimum software version required for new games, or add a critical new feature that everyone wants and suddenly you need to updated, and get into the never ending war of jailbreaking and patching. By buying a console with the expectation of it being regularly jailbroken, all you guarantee is that you end up unable to keep up with the latest software update, and hence the latest games.
Re:...and people will buy it anyway. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Old Dude's Opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:"Family" Sharing (Score:5, Interesting)
I can currently give or sell a game to anyone with no requirements that the recipient is on a friends list. They use wording to give the appearance that they are enabling things, but it is really a matter of stating what they are allowing you to do and what you cannot do.
Buying and selling used games is a huge market and creates liquidity for people to buy new games. This is no different than how buying and selling stocks on the stock market creates liquidity for IPOs. But now they are killing that liquidity for game customers.
On your last point, I would argue that sharing a game among users is an irrelevant feature. In my experience, if a game is worth playing, it is worth owning. I do not want to depend upon the generosity of my friends (and vice verse) to be able to play a game. Everyone loses control in that scenario.