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Announcements The Internet Entertainment Games

Phantom Shows Pictures, Pricing, Huang Hire 121

Posted by CowboyNeal from the pay-to-play dept.
HawKe writes "Audioholics reports today on details of Infinium Labs' new Phantom Gaming Service which is to be unveiled at this year's E3 in Los Angeles. The service looks to be geared towards a wider demographic rather than the hard core gamer, but for the price of included Phantom hardware (basically free) it appears to be a good compromise - the article explains the PC 'console' is 'free of charge to consumers who sign a two-year contract for a basic subscription to its flagship online gaming service at $29.95 per month. Consumers can also opt to buy this advanced gaming 'receiver' and required accessories without a commitment for $199'." S!: GameDaily also has a feature interviewing Infinium's Kevin Bachus, in which it's confirmed: "Infinium is concerned about protecting its IP and its consumers. To that end, Bachus and Infinium have hired Andrew Huang, the MIT grad student who gained fame for hacking the Xbox."
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Phantom Shows Pictures, Pricing, Huang Hire More

Phantom Shows Pictures, Pricing, Huang Hire

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  • Hmm... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Cyno01 ( 573917 ) <Cyno01@hotmail.com> on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:20AM (#9107073) Homepage
    I have to ask, will Duke Nukem Forever be avalible on it?

    • Re:Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fireduck ( 197000 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:34AM (#9107224)
      will any game be available on it? There's 3 different "informative" links in this story; 2 going to interviews. Not 1 mentions a single game title. You get a bunch of free titles when you buy it with "support [for] all current and future Windows-based titles" in the future. Yeah, that's real promising. A game system where they can't even name a single game. Not even a "support for such games as Half-Life, Quake, Warcraft 2, or Spider Solitaire". Granted, they've got lots of time to announce games, but if you want to generate hype, it's all about games, games, games (particularly when all you're selling is a pc clone)

      • Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Funny)

        by dark_panda ( 177006 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @01:28PM (#9108364)
        ... if you want to generate hype, it's all about games, games, games...

        you're half right, but it's really all about developers, developers, developers, developers...

        J

      • Re:Hmm... (Score:1, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        .. , it's all about games, games, games (particularly when all you're selling is a pc clone)

        Perhaps they are targetting a Linux market? You never know.
      • I suppose it'll play any flash game [addictinggames.com] on the Internet.
      • One thing I noticed on their web site is it says it'll be running Windows XP embedded. Elsewhere, they say it'll play existing games, and developers won't need to code for this platform specifically.

        If I had to guess what's going on, it sounds like what they're offering is just a standardized, optimized to play games on a TV, free/cheap Windows XP box, and offering to sell you normal Windows XP games that have been pre-configure/pre-approved to run on your specific setup.

        Kinda like what the other console

  • eat or feed...? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Roman_(ajvvs) ( 722885 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:20AM (#9107078) Journal
    Do we eat crow now? Or should we feed them to the crows? E3 has a longstanding history of showcasing current and future vaporware. I'm still not convinced. Hey who knows! Maybe we'll get a double-whammy and see Duke Nukem Forever running on a phantom console!

    ... DNF... *blinks and then shrugs*

  • Yay, a limited PC. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Leffe ( 686621 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:22AM (#9107096)
    Phantom Game Receiver(TM)

    * AMD® Athlon(TM) XP 2500+ central processing unit (CPU)
    * NVIDIA® GeForce(TM) FX 5700 Ultra graphics processing unit (GPU)
    * NVIDIA® nForce(TM)2 Ultra 400 platform processor
    * 256 MB RAM
    * 40 GB local content cache
    * Microsoft® Windows® XP Embedded Operating System
    * Dynamic, personalized user interfaces customizable for age, gender or technical expertise
    * Lapboard, mouse and game pad included

    * HDTV and Dolby Digital 5.1 compatible
    * Works any consumer-standard broadband Internet Service Provider (ISP): DSL or faster

    This is different from a computer? How? There's nothing that would make me buy this, except for possibly the price. If it's as cheap as a GC I might consider ... no.
    • to start with it's XP embedded, so you can't make a great deal of changes to the config....
    • "This is different from a computer? How? There's nothing that would make me buy this, except for possibly the price. If it's as cheap as a GC I might consider ... no. "

      I think the idea is that a.) there's a stable platform to develop to as opposed to the barrage of Frankenstein'esque computers causing developers needless hassle. b.) Games are delivered to your computer directly via internet as opposed to buying shrinkwrap stuff at the store.

      I doubt this'll change your mind. That wasn't my goal. Simply
      • That's $30 for regular content. The premium games of the Quake and Half-Life ilk would be extra. It sounds less and less like a good deal when you add it up over time.
      • 718 dollars for a two year subscription is kind of hefty in my eyes. How much is xbox live a month?
        • "718 dollars for a two year subscription is kind of hefty in my eyes. How much is xbox live a month? "

          About half. But you gotta buy the games and you also gotta buy the system. In the case of Indrema, you don't have to buy the system, but I have NFI if free games come with it or not. All I meant to suggest was that it might be part of it, and it'd be a damned good idea for them to.
      • Right... a stable platform. Do you mean stable like Xbox versions 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, and the new 1.6? We can only hope Infinium Labs actually make the platform stable if this is going to go ahead.
    • Thanks for the specs (didn't RTFA).

      That's some semi-decent hardware for $199. If the phantom does indeed come out with these specs and price, won't people just take em apart for the guts?

      • "That's some semi-decent hardware for $199. If the phantom does indeed come out with these specs and price, won't people just take em apart for the guts? "

        Oh lord, does that mean every time they do something to thwart hackers trying to install Linux for no particularly good reason, it'll make headline news on Slashdot?
      • Presumably at least some of the hardware will not be removable. I would fully expect the graphics system to be integrated into the motherboard and the CPU to be soldered down. Even the ram could be soldered, although that would be an exceptionally poor move, given how much less reliable ram is than CPUs or GPUs. At least the video ram will probably be soldered, though, so I guess it probably doesn't make a huge difference in MTBF.
        • I thought the idea was that the whole thing was upgradeable?
          • If they do that, they're double-plus-doomed. I have a feeling it won't make it to launch that way. The only way they could pull that off without it being cannibalized for parts is to use custom hardware (such as AGP cards with altered signalling) which would bring the cost up dramatically.

      • $199 per machine and there is an Athlon XP 2500+ in each machine. Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!

        No, seriously. Imagine it.

        Surely the parts alone are worth far, far more than $199. I mean it's cheaper than the Xbox was at launch, except the specs on this are actually decent for a computer at the time of release, whereas the Xbox's Celeron was unimpressive.

    • If it's the Barton core Athon XP 2500 it may be worth the 199. Nvidia card + Hard drive + 256 ram + gamepad + mini keyboard . Replace the motherboard and you have a nice and cheap game rig.
    • Considering it's basically a computer anyway, I'm guessing this is what's going to happen:

      Someone is going to open it up and find out how to connect an optical (or diskette) drive to the machine. Given that they're using a PC CPU, GPU, and the nForce2 motherboard, I'm guessing that's going to be pretty easy. Maybe you wouldn't be able to salvage the games that you're renting from them (indeed, that's what Phantom's game service is touted to be... blockbuster for PC titles), but it's a decently powerful PC
    • Yep, total price for all those components is 315 without any case or PSU, which makes the phantom about 40% cheaper, nicer and probably more silent than a pc you can buy yourself.

      But they are planning to launch it at the end of this year ...

    • Indeed... (Score:5, Funny)

      by JMZero ( 449047 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @12:43PM (#9107885) Homepage
      If you're just hyping a non-existent product, why limit yourself to such boring specs? If you've already given up your link to reality by marketing something that doesn't and won't exist, why not at least make your fantasy exciting?

      Geforce FX 5700 Ultra? Why not "32GB 12-Way Tungstamech Neurogrouts bring you entertainment straight out of the Matrix"? Athlon XP? Why not "Vast arrays of processors shifting in and out of different dimensions deliver impossible computing power while tearing at the fabric of space-time"? Online game rentals? Why not "Direct stimulation of your brain's pleasure centers and direct fine-grained control of all matter in the universe"?
    • So, it's a broken computer [penny-arcade.com]?
    • Actually, this made me start thinking.

      Free for 1 year service. 29.95 * 12 = 359.40

      That's a pretty cheap Linux PC, I'd say. Can I crack the case open and load Red Hat?
      • Free for 1 year service. 29.95 * 12 = 359.40

        Hey better yet you pay me 25 a month for a year and I'll give you one. You save 59.40 and I make 101. (Unit for sale at $199 without the monthly service)

      • It's even cheaper if you just pay the $199 up front and don't subscribe.

        The thing that interests me at the moment is that ATA controllers usually support two disks, so even though they're saying there will be no DVD-ROM drive in the computer, there will only be a master connected to the ATA controller. It might be possible to hack in an external DVD drive of some sort like it supposedly is for the Xbox. So the only limitation might go away.

        Alternatively they might hack the unit so badly that you can't i

    • I hope that they do get the product to market.
      I thing $199 ia a decent price for the hardware included, and once used ones hit ebay these will be nice to mod into "regular" PCs.

      Assuming we ever see these hit the market in real life, who wants to take bets on how long till it runs Linux?

      This is all the computer most people need and in a nice case to boot.

  • Concerned indeed... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Tom7 ( 102298 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:26AM (#9107151) Homepage Journal
    Infinium is concerned about protecting its IP and its consumers.

    Right... those mod chips have a way of crawling into your home and installing themselves, ruining your valuable data. Better protect the consumers!
    • Something else about that line jumped out at me. The use of the word "consumers" instead of "customers".

      Its been a philosophy of mine that the way a company refers to the people who give it money is a pretty good indicator of how they treat them.

      For clarification, I define "consumers" as wallets which are expendable, which under no circumstances should be catered to.

      Customers on the other hand are people whos money needs to be earned, and who the company is willing to make an effort to please in order to g

  • price (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kc78 ( 651501 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:31AM (#9107195) Homepage
    so this free console winds up costing me 718 dollars in the long run. Yeah, I'm all over that.
    • Exactly the point I was going to make, bro:

      $30*24 months = $720 for two years of what?

      At least with PS2, GC, XBox and PC I own something at the end of it. The conceptual idiocy of some of these yahoos who can't wait to charge me every time I find enjoyment in something makes my eyes bleed.

      Technology is supposed to make things cheaper, not more expensive. Idiots who can't get their tiny little heads around this will continue to be very temporary market players.
    • I bet money there is STILL going to be a monthly fee anyway.

      But atleast if you buy this thing, they can't sue you for screwing with it.

  • Parts? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    With those specs if it's cheap enough, why not just strip it for parts?
    -Stu
    • I purchased a 5700 Ultra for 219 dollars a few months ago. I think you just made a decent point sir.

  • Safe Harbor Statement? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:35AM (#9107235)
    Look whats at the bottom, I mean, how professional is this?

    Safe Harbor Statement
    Certain statements included in this press release may constitute forward-looking statements. Actual results could differ materially from such statements expressed or implied herein as a result of a variety of factors including, but not limited to: the development of the Infinium Labs technology, the successful marketing and distribution of the Phantom Gaming System, acceptance by the market of Infinium Labs, products and technology, competition and timing of projects and trends in the gaming industry, as well as other factors expressed from time to time in filings Infinium Labs will make with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC"). As a result, this press release should be read in conjunction with periodic filings Infinium Labs makes with the SEC. The forward looking statements contained herein are made only as of the date of this press release, and Infinium Labs undertakes no obligation to publicly update such forward looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances.

    Anyways... those pictures look pretty manipulated, can't really say why. The lighting is way the hell too bright for one. And also, whats with that ONE cable on the front? First, it looks like it is in a different place in each of the pictures. Also, are they intending to sell a one controller console? I understand its for PC games, but even the XBOX has like 4 controllers.

    Now, lets humor the guy for a moment, and ignore the past terrible PR, lack of evidence of a product, bandwidth costs for this guy to stream whole games, etc. Who would spend $30 a month for two years to rent a console? Thats $720! You could buy an XBOX, Gamecube, and PS2 for that price, and still have money for some games.
    • "Anyways... those pictures look pretty manipulated, can't really say why. The lighting is way the hell too bright for one."

      Derr. They had it profesionally photographed. That involves very controlled lighting, plus they cut/paste it out for the page. (Or maybe it's CG.. Not that I can tell, but not beyond the abilities of a relatively talented artist.)

      "Who would spend $30 a month for two years to rent a console? Thats $720!"

      Doofus, they're not renting the system, they're including it if you subscrib
      • >Derr. They had it profesionally photographed. Actually, professionally Photoshopped. Look at the metadata for the jpgs and you'll see they were at the very least cleaned up in PS 7.0.

        As for the money, technically you're right. Get past the press release and FUD, you're paying $720 to get a free console. So what you're really paying is ~$22 rather than $30. That subscription fee is paying for access to the network and some free games. You're forgetting that there are premium games that cost extra

        • "So yeah, if you're into Tetris or solitare or Yahoo! Games, those games are part of the $30 package. The Unreal Tournaments, Doom3 and Half-Live 2 games are going to be quite a bit more... on increasingly dated hardware. Those savings are quickly disappearing. "

          You're correct, at least as far as the known facts goes. However, since we don't know what those games are, it's an issue that really cannot be settled today. Just remember they're going to have a hard time competing with Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft
          • As far as the facts go, you're right in that more time is needed to see where this current direction is heading. It's not like I'm trying to find something wrong with it, it's just I've never had much faith in their business plan; going where so many others have gone in the past and utterly failed.

            But isn't not having content something wrong? I think that pretty much everyone can agree that the hardware is secondary to the content available to the system. If the Phantom was able to secure several AAA t

          • As I said before (I apologize for being rude in the last message) you're trying too hard to find something wrong with.

            I can usually agree with your posts, but not this one.

            $30/mo for games that I can already play for free on any of the major portals? Additional fees to play other games? Sorry, but I'm not interested.

            Microsoft had announced about a half-dozen titles that were supposed to be AAA at least a year before the XBox was released (Amped, Halo, Oddworld, and Malice come to mind) -- nevermind th
      • "You're not paying $720 for a console. Actually, if this service provides 1 free game a month, you'd save $20 a month on any of the systems you mentioned, plus the cost of those machines. You'd have an extra $630 in your pocket at the end of the 2 years."

        Or, buy a PS2, XBox, or Cube for $100-$150, then get Blockbuster's unlimited game rentals for $20 a month (no 2-year commitment). After 2 years, that's $580-$630. So you've saved roughly $100 off the Phantom, you have a popular, well-supported console, a
    • That notice is required by law. It helps protect the company in the event that their stock goes down. I stops the class action mills from sueing for next to no reason.

  • New design...? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bishiraver ( 707931 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:35AM (#9107238) Homepage
    I'm suprised no one else has commented on the new design depicted in the article. They're definitely digital renderings.

    So they missed their first proposed launch date, and have since scrapped their origional design entirely, including the box.

    Personally, I think they've already got a valid (as per SCO) business model in suing people and providing On-Demand Console (via JPEGs on news sites).
    • I don't think they're all digital renderings- the keyboard and mouse look like it, but the case pics, especially of the flexicable, look real. I think they were extensively photoshopped, though.
      haven't pulled up gimp or p-shop yet to check for signs, but my gut says real but tweaked.
      looking at the size and style, i betcha that you could find 300dpi print res copies on infinium's site- and that would make it real easy to check.

    • I'm pretty sure it's p-shopped... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by millia ( 35740 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @12:00PM (#9107490) Homepage
      going to infinium press image area [phantom.net] you can find the full size images- which are basically uncropped versions that you see from one of the post links.
      looking at the mouse shot (and that's an interesting design- the upper case is one piece, and the buttons flex it when pressed) it's definitely photoshopped. somebody else can do all the gamma-type proof, but all it takes is to look at the glow around the cord.
      so they might be actual devices- but they probably don't look that purty in the real world, i betcha.
      regardless, we'll see in a couple of days.

  • Marketing, marketing, marketing! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Mean_Nishka ( 543399 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @11:36AM (#9107249) Homepage Journal
    I think if there's any lesson to be had in the gaming business it all comes back to marketing.

    Case in point: Sega and Nintendo.

    Here we had two of the largest video game manufacturers on the planet, who were literally spanked by Sony who spent gobs of cash to make their Playstations a success. PS2 hardware is inferior to that of the Gamecube and Xbox, although it has consistently outsold their competition quarter after quarter.

    If Phantom hopes to be successful, they will need to spend millions to get the word out. Even 'giving' the machine away may not stem the tide of the traditional consoles with multi million dollar marketing efforts.

    Lastly, I'm worried about their software distribution method. Most people don't have broadband connections, and those that do don't have a home network. If there is no built support for 802.11 wireless many will balk at the thought of having to wire their home just to play games.

    • Here we had two of the largest video game manufacturers on the planet, who were literally spanked by Sony who spent gobs of cash to make their Playstations a success. PS2 hardware is inferior to that of the Gamecube and Xbox, although it has consistently outsold their competition quarter after quarter

      The PS2 hardware is also alot older than both the gamecube and the xbox. It came out first. The reason why it continues to sell so much isn't marketing. When was the last time you saw a comerical for a PS2?
  • Probably so they can easily port games from Windows.

    Either way, it's risky to try and get people to pay for this kind of thing. I hope they get a good list of games!

    Note: I didn't see a game controller, just a keyboard and mouse.

    • When was it ever Linux? As far back as I can remember, it's been XP embedded.
      • A couple minutes of searching dug up this;

        http://archive.gamespy.com/devdiary/november00/i ndrema2

        • You're getting Indrema mixed up with Infinium. Indrema was the name of the company coming out with a Linux based console, also called the Indrema. Their VC pulled out and they went out of business before delivering on their console. This is a different company than Infinium, makers of the Phantom.

          For what it's worth, every time I heard about Infinium for a while I thought they were referring to Indrema making a comeback, so it's an easy mistake to make.

        • Nope. Indrema was a completely different piece of vapourware. Indrema's businessplan was "lets make a console for opensource coders to play with and pray like hell they make oodles of free apps for us, cause we got nothing".

          It was a very heroic and pathetic venture by some nice Linux people.
        • Indrema died. This is another company with another console.
  • Bunny Huang. Seriously, it they are really ready to showcase a nearly finished product, hiring a security specialist at this point in the game to secure your product for your vedors is just silly, its much to late *unless* that security specialist is a high profile figure like Andrew "Bunny" Huang!

    I still doubt that the Phantom will ever come to light.
  • Let's look at this carefully. Has a consumer product yet emerged which did not work without a service charge, yet was not hacked?

    The article mentions that the company is most worried of spoofing identities. Well, they'd better be. If they want the console and service to succeed they must provide one click shopping for games an apps, with either try before you buy, or some sort of 'dissatisfied' cancel in a few hours after purchase return.

    This means that once someone has another person's id/password/encrypted key or whatever, then they can purchase games in another's name while having charges applied to the other person.

    I believe that within 3 months of wide availability this will be hacked so you can modify the machine without the service knowing, possibly spoofing IDs. Within a year someone will have the service connected to and running on a regular PC.

    And, of course, they'll find out that it runs Linux since MS isn't going to license windows to an xbox competitor at low rates. (ie, they'll use windows, but it'll be so expensive that they'll fail financially)

    -Adam
  • Hiring Huang as a security advisor means that this "free" computer will be harder to hack into a general purpose machine than an Xbox, that's all. I give it six months-- that is, running under the sickeningly optimistic assumption that the Phantom even gets made.

    Can we get some confirmation that Huang was actually hired? Specifically from Huang himself? Infinium has a habit of lying about who they're associated with, you know. [penny-arcade.com]

  • Phantom: For the Easycore? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by superultra ( 670002 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @12:05PM (#9107530) Homepage
    The service looks to be geared towards a wider demographic rather than the hard core gamer

    Naturally, Infinium has been hyping their pursuit of the easycore (anti-hardcore) because that's supposedly where the money is, or at least according to possible investors. So, just how easycore is the Phantom in comparison to other consoles?

    * Requires broadband. Hmm, well, broadband is certainly more proliferated than ever, but in regards to gaming it's still considered an element of the hardcore. I think it's safe to say that Xbox Live is doing well for an online service, but according to most publishers online gameplay is still cutting edge, and therefore hardcore. So, broadband alienates a lot of users. What's more: how many easycore people have a cat5 hookup in their living room? Is the Phantom going to support wireless? Do you see how more involved this is becoming?

    * Keyboard and mouse control. I think it's fairly safe to say that the easycore far prefer a controller to a mouse and keyboard. And yet the latest renderings have no controller at all. If a user of the phantom is willing to use a mouse and keyboard to play FPS games, why not play it on their PC? Again, this is not catering to the easycore, the mouse and keyboard is definitively hardcore.

    * Price. $30 a month? So, the easycore are already paying $30-50 for broadband. Probably $30-90 for cable/satellite, which I mention because it's an entertainment expense. So why would any easycore person pay $30 just to own the phantom and play freeware games? The Phantom subscription fee does not include the games, which themselves will be $40-50. Xbox Live is what, $60 for 12 months? $30 a month is a hardcore price, perhaps even more so because you really don't get anything for it. Even just paying the $200 means you get a machine that people have not coded specifically for. In other words, a game coded specifically for the Xbox, if done well, looks better than a game coded for a PC of the Phantom's specs for obvious reasons. So, why the Phantom again?

    I could go on, but I have better things to do than talk about the Phantom. Feel free to add.

    The linguistics used by Infinium that seem to cuddle up to the casual gamer are a farce. There's no centralized design here to that end. Gamecubes are for the casual gamer more than any other console, and there is nothing in here that is Apple or Nintendo-esque. The Phantom is just that, a constantly morphing mismatch of ideas piecemealed together from different people and different gaming idealogies, if you can even call them gaming idealogies. Practically, the Phantom is, judging by their choice of words and marketing, little more than an attempt to raise investor monies. It is not a gaming machine but a perceived cash cow for Infinium.
    • Hoax or no hoax, I didn't think it was possible to come up with a worse business plan than Infinium originally had.

      I am dumbfounded by how wrong I'm proven by this new release.

      I'm hesitant to state that now it couldn't possibly sound any more ridiculous ... only because the company still exists. One wonders why they don't just hire Baghdad Bob to do their PR.

      Or maybe they did.
    • A compliment to you on your expert analysis. Too bad your comment can't be modded to 6 or 7.

      It would be nice if, in addition to having mods rating stories, allowing all registered users to vote for the 'best post of the story.' You would definitly get the award for this thread.

    • As far as I can tell the phantom looks like a gaming PC for people who don't have a PC, or choose not to play games on their PC but still want to play PC games (the subscription service doesn't list any games that would be exclusive enough to make value of the cost).

      Is it really likely that people without PCs would have broadband? and if they have a PC and broadband but do not use it for gaming would they spend the money for a router? I didn't see anything about it but does phantom support wireless network
    • Perhaps a more interesting question is why aren't they targeting hardcore gamers?

      Do they really think that casual gamers want to throw down $30 a month for some obscure console they've never heard of? I would bet that a casual gamer is much more likely to buy something that they know other people have and that they've heard a lot about, like a Playstation 2.

      If the Phantom were to be successful, I would think they would need the hardcore gamers to be their early-adopters. Without any hardcore gamers a
      • "Perhaps a more interesting question is why aren't they targeting hardcore gamers?"

        Well, give them a few months. Once they read the above comments pointing out the numerous flaws in their current business plan, perhaps they'll rewrite it to target the hardcore gamers instead.

        Personally, I think they'd be better off recruiting a bunch of underpants gnomes.
      • Perhaps a more interesting question is why aren't they targeting hardcore gamers

        Great question. I think it has to do with target audience. Infinium has exhibited far more interest in investors than they have the gaming community (c.f. HardOCP). And investors like the idea of the casual gamer more, at least now, because it's a broader market. Mainstream sounds much nicer than the nerdy fat guy who buys a game a week and has no life. That's not how it is, but that's often how it's perceived (c.f. Most
    • You are spot on everywhere except perhaps the controller. They probably realize they are not going to be able to profitably produce both system and controller, so hopefully they will simply make it work with HID-class game controller devices. This way, any standard HID-class controller and/or input device will work in all games, as well as other devices for which you have a driver - for example, they could include support for Xbox gamepads. Meanwhile other console system controllers are supported via USB "a

    • a game coded specifically for the Xbox, if done well, looks better than a game coded for a PC of the Phantom's specs

      Total fucking bullshit. Compare UT2004 or Far Cry or Painkiller or any other recent game (fuck, even older games) -- which flies on my XP 2400 and Radeon XT -- to any goddamned Xbox game and we'll see who the winner is.

      A 2500 and 5700 Ultra kick the shit out of the Xbox, even with the shitty resolution that the Xbox provides. FSAA, FSAF, 1280x1024, DX9, and not to mention raw power that o

      • Geez. Judging by your aggressive response and excessive use of acronyms, curse words, and big numbers, you'd think that I'd insulted your genitalia. I had no such intention. Instead, I think it's important to note that graphics don't matter to many people outside of the PC hardcore community.

        Take for example, my wife. Definitely an easycore. She dabbles with Mario Kart, played Animal Crossing, and went on a Sims spurt for two months. She saw me playing the demo of Splinter Cell Pandora's Tommorow on

  • For the other side of the story (Score:5, Informative)

    by Torgo's Pizza ( 547926 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @12:13PM (#9107596) Homepage Journal
    There's always more to the story, and especially in this case. Lawsuits, criminal backgrounds, past failed ventures... it goes on and on. Whereisphantom.com [whereisphantom.com] and HardOCP [hardocp.com] have been leading the investigations into Infinium Labs. If you want to get more than press release information, then you should check out these sites.
  • Games, and will the be games that people want to play?

    Sure the Xbox is faster than the PS2 but i would take a PS2 anyday since it has better games.

  • Sounds pretty lame. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by KeeperS ( 728100 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @12:16PM (#9107634)

    As somebody above said, this just looks like a crippled computer.

    Is there anything here to be interested in? I'm certainly not excited about playing games only through a subscription service. I want a physical copy of something I own. I want to be able to play my games years after Infinium goes out of business. The only advantage to streaming games over the internet that I can think of is that it saves money on inventory and packaging, and that really isn't an advantage to the consumer unless game prices are lower. Yeah, that'll be the day... CDs were supposed to be cheaper, too. I'm certainly not excited about the games lined up, since I couldn't find any mention anywhere of exactly what titles the damn thing will play. Since Infinium has no first party development, the vast majority of games on the Phantom will already be somewhere else.

    So, given those disadvantages, why would anyone want to own this thing? To have a cheap PC? The X-Box already does that better.

  • Good Luck (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Mr. Piddle ( 567882 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @12:53PM (#9107969)

    At 29.95/month, whether to buy the Phantom will be rationalized as follows for most families:

    Broadband internet, cell phone, digital cable/satellite TV, Tivo, other on-line games (XBox Live, misc. PC games, etc.), OnStar, telephone extras (e.g., Caller ID), brand-name groceries, new TV/computer/stereo, new furniture, new lawnmower, etc.

    Okay, for this year, pick three or four.

    Simply, most families cannot afford to both get new living-room furniture, for example, and get a good cell phone plan and subscribe to the Phantom service all at the same time and stay financially stable with at least some savings. Think about it: $29.95/mo. is $360/year on top of initial costs. I know I spend less than $150/year on PS2 games cause I'm about as cheap as people get; IMO, Phantom is competing with other luxuries like digital cable or broadband internet (yes, middle America, these things are luxuries).

    • Doesn't it require a broadband connection in the first place?
      • Doesn't it require a broadband connection in the first place?

        Well, if it does when it hits the market, then Phantom just might get edged out of the marketplace. If a family is already spending $40 to $80 per month on broadband and they already have things like a cell phone and cable TV (another $60 to $90month), then yet another $30 per month could push them over their threshold of how much of their budget should be going towards entertainment, which also includes movies, vacations, other toys, etc.

        It i

  • Guaranteed failure (Score:3, Informative)

    by fr0dicus ( 641320 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @01:13PM (#9108197) Journal
    Ignoring the fact that this requires a broadband connection, an adults signature will be needed on the dotted line (I assume it's a credit agreement).

    It will still need early exclusive content in order to gain the required critical mass to make developers notice it enough to provide dedicated content in the future.

    I can't see any reason to sign up for this over buying a PC, it's the same price and much less flexible. By the time the subscription period is up it will be out of date, and the next gen console hardware will be here, spanking it into the middle of next week.

    I can't help but think that any parent with half a brain will see it for what it is, a vastly overpriced games console. At least a PC can be used for practical purposes, and is probably cheaper too.

  • Suspicious revenue? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AzraelKans ( 697974 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @01:20PM (#9108270) Homepage
    Have you noticed the phantom has so many announcements it looks like they actually WIN money each time they get their name mentioned? Well curious as it sounds THEY DO make money. Phantom is a public investor company so each time you hear anything about the phantom more investors are attracted and flock to Infinium Labs. Investors dont want to hear about games or exactly why the product is any good (hype). They just want to know when it will be out (aproximately) and how much money will they make. And if you check the announcements every single one mentions those two aspects and not a single one detail that would entice a gamer to buy it (it will have great graphics, X game is coming for it) . Makes you wonder doesn't it?
    • Despite all the hype... if this thing do hit the market.

      I am comparing it with the Nokia Ncage.... which pretty much sums up to about 100 customers across the U.S. And maybe 20 more customers internationally.

  • Excellent! (Score:2, Informative)

    by Rhys ( 96510 )
    People people people. This is a good thing. Encourage it.

    Look at those components. Look at that price. Fairly competitive at retail, especially if you can run non-xp on it. Now look 6 months down the line when the nearest suburban family bought it and the kids got bored with it. Where's the system now? $10 at their garage sale.

    Do the math.
    • It's fairly competitive at retail now but what about when it comes out? It's first E3 showing hasn't happened yet. When do they plan on deploying this thing? Will it be competitive then? It won't make it to garage sales if it can't keep it's quality vs. price ratio high until it debuts.
    • For $200 that damn thing is getting bought and hacked up to run as a normal PC. Embedded Windows XP Operating system? One less license for me to buy. Cheap computer, here I come.
    • a Beowulf! Seriously, if these things hit market before I get enough money to upgrade my computer.. I'm gonna buy one of these to salvage for upgrade parts.

  • download speeds? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by WormholeFiend ( 674934 ) on Monday May 10, 2004 @02:29PM (#9108987)
    compare the size of today's multi-CD games, and how long it takes to download even a cd-romful of ~700mb...

    at least a couple of hours at optimal connection speeds on excellent high-bandwidth servers.

    now add to the fact that a lot of gamers dislike even the loading times of games that are already installed on their machines...

    I dont know about you guys, but me, I'll believe they can pull it off after they do it, when I can see it.
  • 40 gig harddrive? Are they blind to the massive new technological advancements called DVDs? 4 gigs each at max, considering the average game today is 1 to 2 gigs, that would mean your system can hold a grand total of 20-40 games, total. I recently downloaded a game (much, much newer) that was nearly 5 gigs. I can't wait to use my brand new 10 game system. Oh wait, they'll probably have a harddrive addition system where I can add a new harddrive to it or an upgraded one for only 12 easy payments of $40
    • Don't forget to subtract:
      1 gig for swap
      3 gigs for specialized M$ Windows OS flab
      1 gig for Phantom's own software blotation
      1 gig for ad storage (why not?)
      1 gig for previews, demos, game catalogs, promo crap
      1 gig for user storage, save games etc.
      ---
      32 gigs left over. 25% lost to administrativa.

      That leaves space for about 16 games at 2 gigs each.

      Somehow the logistics of streaming games over broadband doesn't add up. It's going to take a sizeable delay to get the core pieces of a game engine, core gr

  • $29.95 per month?! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by hal2814 ( 725639 )
    I have some concerns about the price of this service. Infinium claims that their audience ranges "from the avid gamer to the casual player" but what casual player is going to spend $29.95 per month on gaming?

    I consider myself to be a bit more than a casual player (but not much more) and I don't currently spend $29.95 per month on gaming. That's $359.40 per year! I spend about $30 - $40 every two months on games and I spend an average of $100 per year on hardware upgrades to keep new games running. That
  • Since they're giving the hardware away with a 2 year subscription anyway, why not just sell the service to anyone with a PC that meets the hardware specs?

    Ok well I know "why", it'll just be effortlessly easy to have all the games you want I guess, instead of the stupidly easy it will probably be with the console...wait...what's easier, effortless or stupidly easy?

    Er anyway, I don't quite understand how they can legally distribute all the new games they want to the subscribers? Especially a game that requi

    • Just as the rest of the dinosaurs who think anything and everything has to be bolted down with DRM, this "cosole" is made for THEM, not for the gamers, and they are terrified of any online-delivery that has people paying for bits instead of media. The only way they'd touch it is if they could somehow destroy the user's computer, or its ability to run the games, if they did at any point anything that showed more initiative than sitting down and mushing buttons.

      Enter the Phantom.

      This is going to flop

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