Stardock, Microsoft Unveil Their Own New Anti-Piracy Methods 232
Island Dog sends news that shortly after Valve showed off their new anti-piracy methods in Steamworks, Microsoft and Stardock were quick to demonstrate their new, similar technologies as well. All three companies are bending over backwards to say that this is not traditional DRM. Stardock (the company behind the Gamer's Bill of Rights) calls their system Game Object Obfuscation (Goo), "a tool that allows developers to encapsulate their game executable into a container that includes the original executable plus Impulse Reactor, Stardock's virtual platform, into a single encrypted file. When a player runs the game for the first time, the Goo'd program lets the user enter in their email address and serial number which associates their game to that person as opposed to a piece of hardware like most activation systems do. Once validated, the game never needs to connect to the Internet again." Microsoft's update to Games for Windows Live has similar protections. "You can sign in and play your game on as many systems as possible, but you have to have a license attached to your account. Of course, this only works for online games."
Like Jim Carrey said... (Score:2)
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Since it uses a graphical user interface, it's GUI GOO.
As to the implimentation, sorry guys but I refuse to have anything to do with anything that contains Dumb Restriction on Media. When the car companies start telling me what I can or can't do with or to my car, I'll fucking walk, or buy a horse.
Goo? (Score:5, Funny)
"Goo" for Game Object Obfuscation?!? Why not simply Controled Update Management?
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Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other side, it's always annoying the need of connecting to internet to register an offline game.
I have friends that don't have internet access. Few years ago even I didn't. Also, an ISP subscription is an extra cost, which not everyone is willing to pay.
They should provide an alternative(which I doubt they will now).
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So, no internet, but a computer powerful enough to run Far Cry 2?
Did he make it out back in the shed?
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On the other side, it's always annoying the need of connecting to internet to register an offline game
No, it's not just annoying. It means they have control to prevent you from using the software. The company can go bust, change hands, close down a division, decide the software is too old, and you're stuck with install media that is useless. Not to mention, tough luck if you're wanting to install somewhere and you don't have net access.
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HEADSHOT!
WoW model seems to work (Score:2)
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When a player runs the game for the first time, the Goo'd program lets the user enter in their email address and serial number which associates their game to that person as opposed to a piece of hardware like most activation systems do. Once validated, the game never needs to connect to the Internet again.
You need an internet connection to "associate" your email and serial to the game.
This is not intrusive either and does not prevent you from installing the game everywhere you want.
I approve.
Unless you don't have an internet connection available.
It's still DRM.
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Did you miss the "never has to connect to the internet again" part the first 17 times it was pointed out? With the Stardock approach, as long as you have your activated copy of the game, you're good to go.
Genius (Score:2)
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... and this is like making a car that needs to phone home before it will start
and if the manufacturer has gone under, or is having system problems today, or the phone service is down, then you cannot drive your car
Why do they pretend to sell you software at all, they are not selling you anything but the privilege of using their software, unless they decide otherwise, or you can't connect, until they can't be bothered to support it anymore ....
Let me get this straight... (Score:3, Interesting)
It associates your account with the game the first time you run it? How does this combat piracy? Almost all software that is available for piracy is the pre-installation package.
What problem is this bulky, resource eater solving?
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I believe this has nothing to do with combating pirated, cracked, games. Its there to inconvenience the retail user that paid for the game only.
(incidentally, Impulse is a POS. I bought Sins of a Solar Empire, tried to install impulse (needed to actually get the game downloaded) but it barfed, then barfed everytime as it tried to uninstall the previous version, which wasn't installed, so it meant I'd paid for nothing. My support call to Stardock is still waiting for a response. I fixed it in the end by goin
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Keep your crap! (Score:2)
Stuff like this makes me feel less bad about Linux not being the same sort of PC
gaming platform that Windows is. If these sorts of shenanigans are a part of the
bargain then I would rather just stick to a Wii or a PS3 plugged into my 60" TV
in the living room.
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That sucks too.
Still.
I don't have to run an installer, install gigabytes of crap on my machine, possibly
brick my machine and then still need the original installation media to play the game.
Way to take one of the key advantages of a general purpose computer and just flush it.
Region locking on consoles is an obscure minor nuissance by comparison.
Re:Keep your crap! (Score:5, Informative)
The PS3 has region free gaming. In fact, I just imported an Asia/Chinese game Demon's Souls and it runs perfect on my US PS3.
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Me too.
The PS3 has (so far) been pretty good about this, but I do have to check before my purchases as there are one or two locked games. The Wii has been hacked (though I'm not sure how well it holds up to the most recent firmware) to be able to do this too.
but yes, it's a pain.
DRM by any other name still smells of stale eggs (Score:3, Informative)
Hopefully people are bright enough to see through this little marketing exercise.
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I've been saying that for years now. Stardock/Impulse/etc. are DRM. They limit the ability to distribute digital media.
You still need an internet connection to enable it from the wording in the summary. What happens when that server is no longer alive? How am I to play the game? What if I don't have internet when I install it on my laptop on a plane to play when I'm bored?
Re:DRM by any other name still smells of stale egg (Score:5, Informative)
I've used Stardock's Impulse a little bit and while I can't comment on all games on it, the 3 I have it works quite well. You can tie a license key to an account, however I have installed and played 2 of the 3 offline never connecting to the internet to play or install, simply by entering the license key in the normal installation. Then I can then tie it to Stardock Impulse which will automatically tell me about updates and help me install them. To register it with Impulse I simply entered the license key again with the online component. In fact Impulse recognized that I had the game installed and asked me if I wanted to add it into the system.
Also, I can then log into stardock impulse on any other computer and it will allows me to re-download and install the game on that one as well. Well I've only done it for one so far, Sins of a Solar Empire, so again I can't comment for all games.
In fact, I play offline all the time and only fire up Impulse (I haven't needed to run it to play the games) when I check for updates.
Re:DRM by any other name still smells of stale egg (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't think this will be a problem, and that these games will be able to be activated online until the end of time, then you need to wake up and pay attention to the history of DRM. There are already plenty of examples of servers being shut off, leaving people without access to the media they paid for.
Or maybe you just only play modern games. That's OK, as long as you realize that a good percentage of gamers out do pick up the older stuff every once in a while.
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My experience with Stardock says no. It was with Galactic Civilization and they created a binary key file that resided in the same folder as the executable. If the game detected that your machine didn't match the key file, it prompted for re-activation.
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You are correct sir.
I remember the good old days, when you did not have to beg for permission to use the software you paid for.
CASH is the transaction. I'm not paying for your bullshit harrasment and limits on my freedom. If you're going to limit my freedom, then limit the fee at which you demand for your wicked software.
A weak point? (Score:4, Interesting)
To defeat this system, all I need to do is to "share" my email account with other folks, or just setup an account just for game purposes. What about that?
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And with Steam, if your IPs are different enough, you'll be banned (Say one login from the USA and another from Canada).
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To defeat this system, all I need to do is to "share" my email account with other folks, or just setup an account just for game purposes. What about that?
If it's anything like Steam, you need to get online to authenticate. Once they receive a statistically unreasonable amount of authentications for email "x", it's very simple to refuse further authentications citing that email address. If someone "stole" your email address this puts you in the position of losing access to ALL your game
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Even activation systems which claims to have "unlimited" installs do monitor install number : it's just that they don't tell you what are the banning rules (which may change anytime at the sole discretion of the publisher or the protection provider).
GOO? (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Actually GOO enables a second hand market (Score:5, Informative)
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Calling it "Rights management" lends them half the victory. They're taking away rights (fair use, etc), not "managing" them.
Solution - Subscription Service (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably the third time I've written this, but the solution to the rampant piracy on the PC gaming platform is simply to offer the games as subscription downloads via a service such as Steam.
Effectively you would rent the game - Depending on how much you pay per month, you get a set amount of refundable credits to spend on the games. Newer games would cost more, whilst older titles would cost less. You could play as many games as your tokens permit, and revoke your rent on a game once you're done with it; or, more importantly, when you discover it is not for you or doesn't work well on your system. I'm lucky to own a console. I've bought PC games in the past, played them for a couple of weeks, gone off them but am effectively stuck with them. With my PS3 games, I just sell them back to the shop.
Additionally, the service could offer things like trophies and achievements (yes, I know Windows Lives already does this). Throw in a few classics that are free to play (such as Doom and Quake) and you've got a system with a lot of appeal.
The nice thing about this service is that, because it's a subscription, you can play the games on any machine by just logging into your account. There's probably a major, major flaw with this idea... but it looks good on paper.
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but people like to own what they buy
Would you mind telling that to the government? They keep thinking they own what I buy.
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Depending on how much you pay per month, you get a set amount of refundable credits to spend on the games.
Credits? Tokens? Just as long as no one lines up to put quarters on my desk.
Sure, why not. (Score:2)
Make it too difficult for the average guy to deal with the projects and the public will demand its removal. Or they will just buy from other companies.
Until DRM is mandated by the government ( which may happen here soon ) there is still a choice.
Making more secure forms of DRM... (Score:2)
Spend your time making games I want to play and I'll buy them. The people pirating your games usually either can't afford them, will never buy them anyway, or simply want a demo that isn't too short or extremely buggy.
Grey Goo (Score:2)
Did anyone else think of Grey Goo when he read the bit about Stardock's "Goo"?
Ironically, their method sounds a bit like safedisc. You know...encrypt the executable file? But how does it work? When someone changes their email address, does that change follow with this? I'm guessing potentially not.
Another thing: Is it just me, or is it coincidence that MS, Valve, and Stardock (I've never heard of these guys) all happen to have DRMv2 far enough along that they can try to get their "Me Too"'s in?
Not a traditional DRM (Score:4, Insightful)
Not a traditional DRM
Um...sure guys. Whatever you say.
How do you define "traditional". From my end, I don't get to see the implementation details, just whether or not I can run the game/program without any hassles and maintain my anonymity. If you're forcing me to identify myself or otherwise check in with you, it's still traditional DRM.
Get a clue. If the game phones home at any point, I don't buy it.
I think this is a step in the right direction. (Score:2)
That being said, what happens if someone steals your account and cheats or something like that?
I've mentioned it before and here again, I'd like to see token authentication with an RSA key fob or similar like paypal currently has.
They only cost $5 and you have a secured connection where only you can log in. Yes it's a hassle for some, but you don't have to make everyone use it. Just those of us who want to use it should.
After all, my account has a considerable investment with at least $1000 worth of games
So, after validation, can I copy the files? (Score:2)
Since the validation happens only once, does that mean that I can take the game and run it on any computer I want? how does that help combat piracy?
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I was thinking the same thing, but then I came up with the answer:
It validates every time the hardware changes... So you need to be online every time you get a new computer or make a hardware change.
I give it 2 weeks (Score:2)
ummm yeah... "Once validated, the game never needs to connect to the Internet again." more fun for crackers.
This is Great! (Score:2)
I could care less about DRM, but I hate three things:
(1) I hate programs that require me to have the DVD in the computer when playing.
(2) I hate programs that don't shut down all processes when not in use.
(3) I hate programs that don't completely uninstall when I attempt to uninstall them.
Since this kind of DRM addresses my concerns---I LIKE IT!
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(1)Needing an internet connection to play a 1-player game
(2)Forcing me to give a company my email account when I purchase a game
(3)Being treated like I'm a criminal for wanting to play their game
Luckily for me, the more companies that adopt DRM or other anti-piracy measures, the more free games I get. If they treat me like a customer, they'll get my money. If they treat me like a thief, they won't.
The normal state of a game is unsupported. (Score:3, Interesting)
This is Bad News for me.
I like computer games. I have been buying games for years. I spent over $1000 for my Atari800 games. I spent over $1500 for my Amiga games. I spent that much for just MSDOS games. I have spent at least $2000 for Windows games. I have purchased many of the commercial games available for Linux.
I want to play my computer games. I still go back to games that I purchased years ago. Most of the time, I can use emulation/virtualization to enjoy a good game as long as I like.
At this point I have hundreds of data-points that show that the normal state of a game is unsupported. The normal state of a game developer is shutdown.
As far as I can tell, any game that requires on-line activation might as well be a rental. Just as soon as I start to like it, it will become unsupported. I would like to play Spore, but there appears to be no point. As soon as I start to enjoy it, it will be gone. The same thing goes for most of the current crop of 'activation required' games.
Fortunately, I already own a LOT of really good games that I can play however I want, anytime I want. The last week, I have been playing Starships Unlimited 3. Plays great in Wine! if you like turn-based strategy, you should pick up a copy from:
http://apezone.com/starshipsunlimited.php [apezone.com]
before they go out of business.
Miles
Microsoft & XBOX(360) (Score:2)
Just because they claim it's not tradition DRM, doesn't mean that their new thing is "better".
I don't have an Xbox (no TV) - I only play on my buddy's 360. He's got a platinum account, so we've had him just buy all the games/extra content we want. Notably, Penny Arcade's two installments, and Bring Down The Sky for Mass Effect. We split the cost since I don't want or need the super-duper-special account where MS gets to keep my credit card on file.
Then he upgraded his 360 to a more recent model he found
Hey, new business model! (Score:2)
Yo, everyone! Microsoft, Stardock, Adobe, Sony, and all the rest of you. I've got an idea on how you can make money here. Listen carefully, because this is very tricky.
What you need to do is sell me something that I can take home and use!
Sell me a program, let me install it and use it.
Sell me a CD, let me put it in the car and listen to it.
In short, QUIT SCREWING AROUND WITH DRM! It does NOTHING but make me less inclined to pay for your damned products! Even moreso if I need an internet connection to author
Stardock Losses Geek Points (Score:2)
I bought Sins of a Solar Empire because Stardock seemed to be above the whole DRM game, at the time. And whereas Sins runs well under Wine, Impulse does not, because of some stupid IE7 requirement. Still, I was able to play their recent Entrenchment expansion by installing it under Windows and copying it over (along with the registry keys), so I guess all is not lost.
Stick with used classics (Score:2, Insightful)
I'll stick to buying used classic PC games. These idiots aren't getting a dime from me!
What am I missing here? (Score:2)
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Sounds like it works in a fairly simple way. The game and the Impulse stuff is encrypted. Its probably encrypted using a key unique to that copy. When you run it, it checks your registry for a decryption key. If its not there, you have to enter your e-mail address and register it with them. Once you have done so, your computer can decrypt and play the game. So you can fake this step, but without the key, what good does it do you? None! Of course, you can spread that key around with the copy, but th
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Re:Meh... (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Meh... (Score:5, Informative)
The only flaw I have with Steam is that they dont allow you to tie activation keys to your account.
They do for some games, such as Unreal Tournament 3.
Others such as Crysis, Fallout 3 they do not however.
See here for a list of games you can do it with: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7480-WUSF-3601 [steampowered.com]
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Except, you know, the GGP said you can't do it with any games and the GP said you can do it with some...which is useful information.
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Another thing I would like to see is allowing to predownload something before buying it
It's relatively easy to crack Steam so I doubt they'll ever let you do that. My understanding is that when you preload games before their release critical files are left out because Valve and the publishers know it's easy enough to crack Steam.
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Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:5, Funny)
That's rather telling. "DRM is bad. DRM is what stops me from stealing software." Nice to see you address the issue directly, at that.
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
The ability to "steal" content unfortunately is a necessary part of it being accessable and usable.
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
The ability to "steal" content unfortunately is a necessary part of it being accessable and usable.
Just when I'm out of mod points...
But yes, that's exactly it: if it's not usable after theft, it's probably also not usable after something else went wrong.
As far as I understand, GOO does require online activation, which means that after Stardock goed bankrupt, you probably won't be able to install it on a new machine anymore. And if you are able to install it on new machines without requiring Stardock's permission, that pretty much means you can "steal" it.
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No, I'm not a native speaker, why do you ask?
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But what are the odds?
Everyone always says "After company X goes bankrupt, it'll be worthless." - but really, what are the odds that Stardock/Valve/Microsoft/Blizzard/etc. will go under?
I think you're all paranoid. These companies have been around for years - they clearly have some smart people leading them.
(...Microsoft chairmen excluded. :P )
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But what are the odds?
Everyone always says "After company X goes bankrupt, it'll be worthless." - but really, what are the odds that Stardock/Valve/Microsoft/Blizzard/etc. will go under?
I think you're all paranoid. These companies have been around for years - they clearly have some smart people leading them.
What are the odds of AIG going under?
What are the odds of Lehman going under?
These companies have been around for over 100 years.
Even if you look at tech, 10 or so years ago, it would have been hard to imagine Sun or SGI disappearing (even 3dfx in its heyday -- I would put 3dfx on the same standing as Stardock / Valve in your list). Now its not so hard to imagine.
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's where every DRM system fails: If you can't steal it, then you also probably can't buy it and use it. Broken is broken, regardless of intent.
The capacity to copy DVDs, is what gave me the capacity to play them. When DeCSS came out, I started buying DVDs.
My lack of capacity to access Bluray discs is what keeps me from copying them, but it's also what keeps me from being able to play them. When I get a HD TV, if I can't access (play) Blurays, then I'm not going to buy any. I'll just pirate them.
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:5, Interesting)
The ability to "steal" content unfortunately is a necessary part of it being accessable and usable.
How true that is. When you look at the effort involved in keeping all your little registration codes straight for buying games online or keeping all CD's paired with their authentication keys versus pirating a game, piracy is the least hassle hands down. They're teaching everyone the wrong lesson here.
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
DRM isn't about preventing piracy. It's about showing consumers who's boss.
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Piracy isnt about avoiding DRM, its about showing the companies who's boss.
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And that's exactly as it should be, considering that we (the People) are the boss of copyright law.
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:4, Insightful)
Not true. Copyright "infringement" is also about extending rights into perpetuity, crushing fair use, limiting parody and free speech, and taking away the rights of the consumer to do what they want with the stuff they own.
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If I understand the Stardock system, once you've paid for and activated the download, it's permanently transformed into a usable game, and can be copied as much as you want. There's no registration code to keep straight (IIRC, Stardock keeps it's own database of what your registration codes are, so it you lose everything they can give them to you again).
This sounds like the ideal system to me:
* Download a file from the Game co or FilePlanet or wherever, that needs a key to unlock.
* Game co sells you activa
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I assume you mean "remarkably effective" in the sense of the kid getting punished (and therefore being less likely to share other games in the future) ra
Re:Not traditional DRM? (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, you can steal the software, just walk into Gamest... (no, not Gamestop, my daughter manages one)... er, Best Buy and shoplift a copy. That's the only way to steal software.
You might have a hard time infringing its copyright. You would also have a hard time excersizing your right to resell what you bought and paid for, should you decide to buy it rather than shoplift.
It was smart of you to post AC, so nobody would know who the dumbass that doesn't understand the difference between stealing and infringing copyright is.
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Which Gamestop? I want to see if they have Battletoads.
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The one Little Feat sings about in "Oh, Atlanta"
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Oh, you can steal the software, just walk into [...] Best Buy and shoplift a copy. That's the only way to steal software.
Well I prefer the other way, go to the developer HQ, and take all copies of source code and art there. That's what I call software theft, why stop at a copy ?
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Not sure who is being a dumbass here. Stealing and theft as English words (not as a legal concepts) apply perfectly validly to a variety of uses that have nothing to do with tangible property or depriving the victim of its use: "he stole my idea", "identity theft" etc.
That's true, but copyright infringement is only "theift" to someone wanting to load the language for political purposes. Everyone knows that "stealing an idea" isn't really stealing and that identity thieves don't become the person whose ident
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There are two key differences that make that situation entirely different:
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When somebody copies the data of a game they didn't legally acquire, and ANYONE calls it "Stealing a game", people get up in arms.
"Stealing" doesn't require tangibility (steal a kiss, steal an election, steal someones thunder, etc)
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Get free universal / generic address from a slightly more permanent company, like Hotmail or Gmail,
Or better still, register a cheap domain name. And then its as permanent as you want it to be. You can get a domain with mail forwarding for like $5 bucks a year.
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The GP is a copy/paste troll. Please ignore.