What To Expect From Sony's Next-Gen PlayStation (wired.com) 131
Daetrin writes: Sony is unwilling to confirm "Playstation 5" as the name, but their next console is "no mere upgrade" according to a report from Wired, which cites Sony executives -- who spoke on the record:
"PlayStation's next-generation console ticks all those boxes, starting with an AMD chip at the heart of the device. (Warning: some alphabet soup follows.) The CPU is based on the third generation of AMD's Ryzen line and contains eight cores of the company's new 7nm Zen 2 microarchitecture. The GPU, a custom variant of Radeon's Navi family, will support ray tracing, a technique that models the travel of light to simulate complex interactions in 3D environments. While ray tracing is a staple of Hollywood visual effects and is beginning to worm its way into $10,000 high-end processors, no game console has been able to manage it. Yet."
The console will also have a solid-state drive and is currently planned to be backward-compatible with both PS4 games and PSVR.
"PlayStation's next-generation console ticks all those boxes, starting with an AMD chip at the heart of the device. (Warning: some alphabet soup follows.) The CPU is based on the third generation of AMD's Ryzen line and contains eight cores of the company's new 7nm Zen 2 microarchitecture. The GPU, a custom variant of Radeon's Navi family, will support ray tracing, a technique that models the travel of light to simulate complex interactions in 3D environments. While ray tracing is a staple of Hollywood visual effects and is beginning to worm its way into $10,000 high-end processors, no game console has been able to manage it. Yet."
The console will also have a solid-state drive and is currently planned to be backward-compatible with both PS4 games and PSVR.
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Their Sales and marketing team feel like their job is in jeopardy if they just rebrand the product with a new number. 3 or 4 times of doing this normally gets them nervous so they will want to give a new edgier new name. Heck Microsoft decided to call their Latest Browser Edge. I expect they will rename Windows 10 in a few more years to just Windows or Windows Edge or something stupid like that.
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I expect they will rename Windows 10 in a few more years to just Windows or Windows Edge or something stupid like that.
Only if they ever make it all-subscription. Otherwise they need version numbers to make people feel bad about their old Windows, because more is better.
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With Windows 10, Windows became a service. It is currently a "buy once and use forever" service application. What we dread is the day when that switches and they make us start paying a subscription fee to get updates.
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When that day comes, all the dumbasses will pay to keep using it.
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A 5 and an S look too similar. They don't want it to look like PSS when abbreviated. Didn't stop Samsung from having an S5, which looks more Nazi than urinary.
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Playstation V.
Re: TL;DR (Score:1)
Why would they ? Tens of millions of people are happy to spend hundreds of dollars for subpar outdated hardware and play overpriced downgraded games compared to their PC version.
Sony and Microsoft would be crazy to change this business model.
Re: TL;DR (Score:4, Informative)
overpriced downgraded games compared to their PC version.
Where is the PC version of Horizon Zero Dawn, or God of War, or Astro Bot: Rescue Mission, or Firewall: Zero Hour? Or any of the Uncharted games? Spider-Man?
The best games of the last few years haven't been on PC, and probably never will be. Doesn't matter how good the hardware is -- Sony is killing it with software, which is where things matter.
So take your hardware superiority somewhere else. The adults here are trying to have a conversation.
Yaz
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I'm actually fine with people who would prefer to play on a console instead of a PC. Other than bad PC ports of a game originally released on a console it doesn't really affect me. But this stuck out to me as needlessly myopic:
The best games of the last few years haven't been on PC, and probably never will be.
Where is the console version of Oxygen Not Included, or Factorio, or Satisfactory, or Dota 2? Or any of the Total War games? Rimworld?
Don't pretend that just because consoles get exclusives, they get all the best games. It really depends on what you're into. And something to kee
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I totally agree, the flamewars over consoles and PC master race BS is just that, BS.
There are games that should never of been ported to the consoles as well specifically because consoles are incapable of doing them justice. Two that come t
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The best games of the last few years haven't been on PC
Errr no. The "best" games come out on PC just fine (as well as the most popular ones which you can see by sales figures). Your particular flavour of games haven't been on PC. That's quite a different story.
super speed SSD is not really needed bigger is nee (Score:1)
super speed SSD is not really needed bigger is needed.
Or maybe dual drive 1 fast and 1 slower big disk.
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A "next-gen" console with an old-school platter drive is a deal-breaker for me. There is no reason, in a 2020 console, why they shouldn't have 2TB+ SSD drives (or at least offer them as an option). There is only so far you can optimize a platter drive (and MS pretty much reached this wall with the Xbox X). At some point you have to bite the bullet and move on to SSD. No one wants long load times anymore, and the technology has gotten cheap and reliable enough now that there is really no excuse for using spi
Re: super speed SSD is not really needed bigger is (Score:2)
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People have put SSDs into the PS4 and it made virtually no difference to load times because the PS4's mass storage interface is unbearably slow.
An SSD in PS5 will only be a win if the mass storage interface also gets an upgrade.
Sold at a loss (Score:3)
Lots of manufacturers sell console either at thin profit margin at a loss and make crapload of money on games (and accessories).
Selling console that will not be used for gaming will make a huge cut into their profit stream.
It won't happen.
So no comeback of officially sanctioned "Other OS" (you'll have to wait for the homebrew scene to find a way, and then Sony will block them in a game of cat and mouse "because piracy !"), no enterprise features, no multi-monitor setup(*), etc.
---
(*): for the "enterprise" v
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What makes you think speedy isn't needed? You need larger because games are getting larger (in size) but expect loading times to remain the same?
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PS5 1TB super disk only $1499 vs PS5 with sata ssd $799 vs $899 1TB pci-e or just by an apple at $1999
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Write cycles are going to be low since games are basically write once + patches. You can easily get away with QLC, which is pushing 1TB down near the $100 mark at retail for even M.2 (at SATA speeds).
What to ACTUALLY expect is (Score:2)
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The problem with PC gaming is the difference of quality between two different PC's Depending on your video card, your CPU, how much Ram you have... This makes some games run superior to a console, and on a slightly different PC (Still modern) you have bugs and performance problems.
You get a Playstation or an XBox and match their names, you mostly expect the games to run consistently.
The biggest point of branding, isn't that a brand is superior, but a brand is consistent.
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Comparing Ps3 to Ps5, you think there's consistency there? Then you have the whims of developers on top of that. Then you still have bugs and performance issues, frame stuttering even on your "consistent brand"
PC's are modular and not actively trying to tie your hands, that's the real difference. Sony doesn't want you using their box for anything that doesn't make them money, and if you try, they'll brick you.
Re:What to ACTUALLY expect is (Score:5, Informative)
Comparing Ps3 to Ps5, you think there's consistency there?
Yes. There are consistency among PlayStation 3 consoles, consistency among PlayStation 4 consoles, and consistency among whatever Sony decides to call the next generation.
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He compared all PC's to all consoles, not individual models. You can buy "gaming PC's" fully configured that are entirely as consistent one to the next as any PS-x console. One could argue there's more consistency in PC's,
as you have a platform that can play ANY games that come along and as they're modular you don't have to chuck the entire $500 initial investment to upgrade the graphics output/resolution/etc.
Just face it, PC's are consoles without the handcuffs. If it's too hard, too much trouble to ins
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"consistency among PlayStation 4 consoles"
Incorrect. Hardware change is present in varying PS4 versions.
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Games still have to support at least the non-Pro version.
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PC's are modular and not actively trying to tie your hands, that's the real difference. Sony doesn't want you using their box for anything that doesn't make them money, and if you try, they'll brick you.
Do you not understand that this is what many gamers want?
I've got a decently powerful PC that I can play games on, but typically I use it more for coding and web browsing. When I actually want to game, I more often than not use one of my consoles. I don't have to worry about compatibility, whether or not this game runs well on my PC or whether or not I need to upgrade, and I can just sit back and play it on my couch without having route an HDMI cable around the room or anything.
Yes, games on the PC can lo
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Gamers WANT to be bricked, DRM'ed, and stuck with unfixable problems, that's your argument now? Console retards I swear, you deserve to be raped as you are.
" I take advancements and they're nice but honestly PS3 graphics are "good enough" for me. " - Now you're going to say PS3 should be "good enough for anybody" right?
By that argument nobody would be buying new consoles, genius.
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You don't "have to fiddle" to play games lol. Installing drivers is 2 clicks. If you can't install a game, run windows update, and shut down properly, you'll probably shit all over your playstation like a retard also.
"Yeah, I COULD cook a meal in my kitchen" - Per this analogy you got rid of your kitchen, eat exclusively at Burger King, become obese, and can't take care of yourself properly. Yes, there are morons like that.
That doesn't make it a good thing, because the lowest common denominator exists d
Driver regressions (Score:1)
Installing drivers is 2 clicks.
Plus how many more clicks when a driver has a regression? The reduced variety of console hardware reduces the chance of regressions.
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Lol, you guys sound like you haven't played any PC games in the last decade or two. I can't remember last time I had to "fiddle" with PC game, probably not since Windows XP (may it RIP). A few clicks on Steam/Origin/Uplay or whatever else downloads whatever you want, installs it, and it just works. Even most "alpha" games are fairly stable and hassle free nowadays.
Yeah, have to have some basic understanding of what your Video Card and CPU can handle. I mean come on... you can't complain about having to go o
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I've had a lot of trouble with game pad support on the PC. Some games won't recognize it at all, or sometimes I end up resetting the config multiple times. I've also had to upgrade the video card.
So not huge, but not universal compatibility.
On the other hand, I've got a stack of PS2 games I can't play because the PS3 wasn't compatible, and I've avoided the PS4 because I'd have the same problem with my PS3 games.
All in all, probably a wash.
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I don't have to worry about compatibility
You do have to worry about compatibility in the sense of whether a particular game is ported or not. There are more PC exclusives than PS3 exclusives or PS4 exclusives. And even when a game is on both PC and PS3 or PS4, the fan-made quality-of-life mods to the single-player tend to be PC exclusive.
Re: What to ACTUALLY expect is (Score:2)
Do you not understand that this is what many gamers want?
Along with a hole in the head, I suppose...
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I'll one-up you here. I have a full-on gaming rig PC, and even *I* still play most of
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Yes, games on the PC can look a little better, but I'm long past worrying about graphics these days. I take advancements and they're nice but honestly PS3 graphics are "good enough" for me. I could live with that level of quality indefinitely and would be fine. And I'm fine with those consoles being used only for what Sony/MS intended them for. I don't have any use for them. Hell I don't even watch Netflix on them because it feels like a waste of power - I use a Roku instead.
Some folks aren't rich enough to afford a whole separate piece of equipment for each thing they want to do.
Not everyone can afford to spend $400 on a mid-range play box that will only play a very select range of titles pre-approved by [M$ | Sony | Nintendo] which very often cost $60 new, $100 on a netflix box with $15 subscription on top of that, and $300 on a work + web browser box.
Some folks don't mind spending, say, $600 on a machine that can do all of the above with no extra payments and can be easily a
Re: What to ACTUALLY expect is (Score:2)
You might have a point if your numbers stacked up. A Ps4 costs £250. A roku stick, amazon firestick, or whatever, costs less than £50 - usually a lot less. And you don't even need the roku since the playstation has Netflix and a lot more.
A gaming Pc is £600 minimum. A reasonable graphics card alone is the price of a PlayStation.
Don't parrot that utter nonsense. (Score:1)
I'm a game developer. And none of that has ever been a problem.
Every main quality level is like a console generation, has certain minimum expectations, and the game enigne checks your hardware to see which one is completely fulfilled by your hardware.
The only difference is that PC games ship with the assets for all levels, while for ever, consoles we support, We only add one.
(It's a bit more complicated, since screen site can still vary. And the checker is much smarter, often having per-GPU profiles.)
In the
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This makes some games run superior to a console, and on a slightly different PC (Still modern) you have bugs and performance problems.
Pretty much no. You need an incredibly low end system to be beaten by a console these days with even the most entry level "gaming pc" easiliy out performing consoles. What causes performance problems and bugs are stupid developers who shit on the PC release by just copying and pasting a console game to it without even the cursory care needed to consider a decent platform.
Stupid shit like hardcoding a 900p resolution into your engine so that PC gamers who dared to select a different resolution ended up with
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The problem with consoles are, they are well and truly powerful enough to serve as a home computer and because of greed are crippled and blocked from doing so. What I want to know is whether they next playstation will allow a VM Sony Linux Distribution, to allow normal computer access, for browsing, communications, document writing et al, run the full suite of typical FOSS Linux applications. Now that would make it far more useful and a much bigger threat to M$'s monopoly.
Don't be dicks Sony, do a Linux dis
Powerful? Not even. (Score:1)
Consoles are usually low-end PCs by the time they're released, plus lockdown and a limited input device. That's it.
Which is no surprise, given that they have to cost a fifth of a new high/mid-range PC.
Somebod calculated the SoC to/cost about $65. My Ryzen 3 cost more.
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No marketing department ever won an award for "It's like the last generation, but better." So yeah, fuel up the Hyperbole & Buzzword Train and get ready for a ride.
Backward compatible... ok you got my attention (Score:2)
What really has my interest is that it seems that it will be compatible with PSVR
I've not gotten as much use out of PSVR as I thought I would but it's always a hit with friends (Fruit Ninja VR or watching friends get motion sick playing DoomVR in full locomotion mode is always a hoot)
The idea that it will be backward compatible with PSVR makes me happy as it'll give me more time to feel I really got my money's worth out of it as more titles drop
Though it also means they're likely ~not~ going to change their
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Yeah, yeah, I know if I really cared that much I'd go get an HTC Vive
A friend of my son was over visiting & tried out my PSVR, and he said that it was better than his HTC Vive, especially the motion tracking. Also, I got mine for $200 on sale at Walmart including Gran Turismo Sport VR. Only down side is I don't have two PS Move controllers to take full advantage of it. I have an old PS Move set that has only one wand & one hand controller.
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Yeah I have a standard PS4 not a pro... and agree it's still quite good. Sure I wouldn't mind a pro, but the 4 is plenty fine .. though I had to get an external USB drive as those VR titles are a bit space hungry.
Alphabet soup?? This. Is. Slashdot! (Score:1)
People here are expected to know these things! This is not US Weekly, you know?
What to really expect (Score:2)
Sadness, disappointment, features you don't want or need, and still no version of kodi.
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To be fair, if you want to run Kodi, there's 100 ways to do it.
Blast Processing (Score:2)
I'm still kind of on the fence about CD-ROM vs cartridge though...
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Blasting = DMA'ing (Score:2)
The original use of the word comes from one of the developper [segaretro.org] speaking about cool tricks that you could do by abusing DMA to blast data to the VDP.
(Among other doing high color tricks mentioned in the Eurogamer articles, explored [youtu.be] but eventually unused [youtu.be] by some developers back in the day, and found on some modern-day demos [youtu.be]).
Then marketing department found the term cool and ran with it [segaretro.org], basically using it to say "our device has more raw power than the competitor's" and plastering it all over any communication
"backward-compatible" (Score:1)
"backward-compatible"
Remember to buy some pop-corn.
Won't Matter If they Keep Up "Lite Models" (Score:4, Interesting)
The whole point of buying a video game console was to not have to worry about different "tiers" of quality and performance like you have to with PCs.
With the recent generation pulling this "PS4/Xbox-Lite" crap where games run at worse performance on the cheaper consoles, it makes me wonder why should I even purchase a console when a desktop will be infinitely better in terms of cost, performance, and longevity? That ignores the fact that I could easily set on up to run in the living room.
Consoles nowadays nothing more than overpriced specialized computers for the living room, of which there are many free options available for PCs if I so desire to go that route.
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The point of standardized hardware is that all games will run on the system.
Here's what PCs will never do. Have a game come out that can run on high end hardware from 5 years ago at 60 FPS.
The point of consoles is to have a standardized hardware platform for all game to run on. That's it.
The shift now is that there will be major and minor releases of hardware. The PS4 is the PS4 pro. Just think of it the 4.0 and then 4.1. The PS 5.0 will provide new features that the PS4 hardware could not support. Th
Never do? They literally do that! (Score:1)
I have a 7 year old high end PC for my GF, and nearly ALL games still run in good quality settings! The GPU can keep up with a 1050!
It's even better than for consoles! Because with old consoles, you just won't get recent games AT ALL. At least with PCs, you can scale them down until they do.
And as a game deveroper... games *always* had to be designed to be perfectly scalable for a wide range of performance. Do you think we design with only one console at one resolution ever in mind?
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it makes me wonder why should I even purchase a console when a desktop will be infinitely better in terms of cost, performance, and longevity?
I call shenanigans. Have you priced a gaming PC? The most expensive console costs the same as the graphics card alone. You cannot get a decent gaming PC for the price of a console. I like my gaming PC, but I paid a hell of a lot more than any of my friends did for their consoles. You could buy a switch, PS5 Pro, and XBox One X for the price of an entry level gaming system.
Also, I think it's better to get a nicer experience for more money much sooner, so I welcome tiers. I will probably even pick up
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Sure. When you're throwing a GTX1080 into your 4K gaming system.
On the other hand you can throw a GTX1030 or even less at the system and happily game away with Xbox level quality. Hell for all the talk about how performance of Battlefield V sucked with a RTX2080 with all settings at high, if you play like a console gamer with average settings, average draw distance, crappy textures, no ray tracing, and resolution low enough that you can cut through a tough steak with the shitty aliasing effects then you don
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Sure. When you're throwing a GTX1080 into your 4K gaming system.
On the other hand you can throw a GTX1030 or even less at the system and happily game away with Xbox level quality. Hell for all the talk about how performance of Battlefield V sucked with a RTX2080 with all settings at high, if you play like a console gamer with average settings, average draw distance, crappy textures, no ray tracing, and resolution low enough that you can cut through a tough steak with the shitty aliasing effects then you don't need a GPU at all. Even Battlefield 5 runs greater than 30fps at 1080p on an AMD APU.
You've taken us right back to the beginning of this thread with what exactly is wrong having a -lite version of each console, because it's still less fuss than all that ^
Been there done that already, driver updates every week that magically squeeze performance out of thin air for new games (why spend more for relatively small performance gains in hardware when software updates swing performance so much?) while old games stop working right and slow down, bragging about superior draw distance when the guy tha
Re:Won't Matter If they Keep Up "Lite Models" (Score:4, Insightful)
I wrote a few years ago about why people submit to console inflexibility. The reasons I came up with [pineight.com] include these:
- Less chance of ending up with "fake game" shovelware [gamesindustry.biz] even worse than E.T., Chase the Chuck Wagon, and other poster children of the 1983 crash
- No worry about reading the tea leaves that are PC game system requirements
- Little variation among PCs in an online multiplayer pickup group of strangers giving nobody an unfair competitive advantage
- Less cheating in an online multiplayer pickup group of strangers due to no mods
- No need for antivirus
- Offline use of disc games is more convenient for gamers in rural areas or deployed on military bases
- Less hardware variation means less chance of driver conflicts
- Living room friendly case by default
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"If any of these are a problem for you, perhaps you shouldn't be pc gaming. Or gaming at all."
Shouldn't be gaming at all? Uh, what?
The grandparent poster gave a reasonable list of console gaming advantages. Do you have some other set of criteria you'd like to propose? Or are you arguing that the hundreds of millions of people who own video game consoles are all fundamentally wrong and the entire industry shouldn't even exist? Because that seems a bit arrogant. Not to mention rather aggressively short-sighted, given that a number of companies that make very popular PC games would probably collapse
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Why not? The Xbox O
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PS4s cost what £250 now? Can a PC that costs that much play the same games as well? No. At launch cost? Nope. Mid-life? No chance. You could get a second hand PC that would but then it's second hand.
Suppose you want to play games on your nice big TV screen on the sofa. No problem with a PS4. With a PC you better be able to tolerate that hoover sound or invest in watercooling and a sound dampened case to cut the noise down. This is extra cash. Oh you don't want a 3ft high ATX case next to y
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"Free" if you already own a desktop PC, which only a tiny number of people do.
A gaming laptop is 4 times the price of a home console.
Gaming consoles are a bad deal for the small number of people who can and do build PCs, but that's a small minority of the market.
Re:Won't Matter If they Keep Up "Lite Models" (Score:4, Insightful)
it makes me wonder why should I even purchase a console when a desktop will be infinitely better in terms of cost, performance, and longevity?
Playing on the couch with a controller? I mean if you're single you may get away with a battle station in your living room, but for the rest of us ... well we own consoles AND PCs for that reason.
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If you knew more you'd realise how non-comparable that actually is.
Full disclosure: I have a PC and a PS4 AND occasionally use the turd that is Steamlink.
The original PS4 runs games fine (Score:2)
I still have my original launch PS4 and games run fine on them. Do you recall how games were at the end of previous generations? Developers really start pushing the envelope in terms of visual fidelity and you see that take a priority over frame rate.
For example Shadow of the Colossus ran at a low frame rate on the PS2 but it was trying to do things like simulate physics, draw crepuscular rays, use motion blur and bloom lighting, and present a sprawling landscape with giant beasts.
It's the same story with a
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4 Console SKUs (Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox Two) is a LOT fewer variations for a developer to target than then billion hardware\driver\utility\patch variations in Windows.
cloud cloud cloud (Score:2)
Poisoned the well. (Score:4, Interesting)
The video gaming industry is the biggest dog and pony show around. Every few years another console generation comes around, and the 'retro' genre grows.
At this point, you cannot even buy a full AAA game outright on launch-day. You are instead offered a framework of minimal features, and are expected to pay again a few more times for 'expansions' and 'DLC', which are just code for 'the rest of the game'. Let's not forget loot-boxes, micro-transactions, GB scale day 1 updates, data harvesting stores, always online requirements, and the death of the second-hand market.
All of this despite the truly massive library of 'retro' games with no such shenanigans for pennies on the dollar. The big players have to make big PR noise every few years before the next generation develops an interest in what the older gamers are playing, and to keep the older gamers from realizing they already have more than they can play in a single lifetime.
I used to spend a sizable portion of my income on gaming, and it used to be worth it. Before that, my childhood was fixing and playing the rich kids broken consoles and computers. I grew into a respectable engineer on the skills I earned doing that, but now I buy maybe 1-2 games a year.
Had I played my Fender instead, I'd be fucking a rockstar. Today they learn those fucking obnoxious dance moves, and how to talk shit like a racist-sailor-criminal.
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At this point, you cannot even buy a full AAA game outright on launch-day. You are instead offered a framework of minimal features, and are expected to pay again a few more times for 'expansions' and 'DLC', which are just code for 'the rest of the game'. Let's not forget loot-boxes, micro-transactions, GB scale day 1 updates, data harvesting stores, always online requirements, and the death of the second-hand market.
Hence the benefit of PC. Barring the FOMO(god, I hate that acronym) crowd with no self control, just wait a year or 2 for a GOTY edition or the game +DLC to go on sale for a significant discount, and buy it then. The last game I paid full price for on launch (I would have most likely bought Metro Exodus if it weren't for the EPICally chickenshit move they pulled) was RS2: Vietnam (241 hours played on that and 605 hrs on RO2, so worth the investment) since it is a pure multiplayer game. I never buy a sing
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just wait a year or 2 for a GOTY edition or the game +DLC to go on sale for a significant discount, and buy it then.
Provided the online multiplayer's matchmaking server hasn't already been turned off.
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At this point, you cannot even buy a full AAA game outright on launch-day. You are instead offered a framework of minimal features, and are expected to pay again a few more times for 'expansions' and 'DLC', which are just code for 'the rest of the game'. Let's not forget loot-boxes, micro-transactions, GB scale day 1 updates, data harvesting stores, always online requirements, and the death of the second-hand market.
That's why I always wait a couple of years before getting the new console. There's usually a good price drop & then you can get the GOTY versions with all the DLC for half the price. I don't do online because there's too many spazzes that play.
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Those are side-effects of game prices that haven't kept pace with skyrocketting development
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All of this despite the truly massive library of 'retro' games with no such shenanigans for pennies on the dollar.
hmm, you should check out those prices on retro games, they are certainly not pennies. unless you're talking about utter rubbish games...
unless you go the emulator and downloading roms route.
"Expense" (Score:2)
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Gaming is cheaper than ever.
Here are some console prices, adjusted for inflation to 2019 dollars:
Atari 2600: $850.19
Nintendo NES: $475.43
Sega Genesis: $392.84
Super Nintendo: $374.71
3DO: $1207.11 (guess everyone was right to mock the price!)
It gets even more interesting if you just stick with Playstations:
PS1: $502.02
PS2: $443.96
PS3: $762.10
PS4: $435.73
Games have gotten cheaper too. Pitfall for the 2600? $80.70. Secret of Mana for the SNES? $141.62. PS1-era games? $67.16 budget titles to $83.95 manlines. PS2
Uhm, $10,000 high-end processors? (Score:2)
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