ZD "Objective Reporting" Not Just For Linux 203
I thought I'd post this in the YRO section for a couple of reasons. One is that it's starting to reverberate, and has generated at least one counter-editorial. But the second is a larger point. Half-Life and similar games are marketed to adults, not children; the 20-30 year old age group purchases almost all of these types of games. Yet attackers want to restrict the sales of these games to anyone on the basis that they're unsuitable for children. The fact that Family PC misjudged the game's release date when making up their article (remember, this had to be written months ago to make it to publication now, they probably forecast that the new game would be on sale by now) makes the attack more obvious, but these sorts of attacks happen all the time from the "save the children" crowd. (Family PC makes most of their income from advertising filtering software and similar snake-oil parental protective measures.) This is how you whip up the troops to go censor the internet or whatever other target you have in mind.
General Reply (Score:1)
The sad thing is... (Score:3)
That said, I hope they get what's coming to them, but I don't think this is the end of any of this sort of propaganda. :/
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"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
ZD's "objective reporting" (Score:3)
Games advertised in EGM get the best reviews every time. Same thing with their other magazines, advertised stuff gets great reviews, guaranteed.
The recent Linux vs. NT security "test." Installing a bloated service pack was OK, but they didn't install 21 RPMs that all together were less than the service pack wasn't done because it was "no enterprise would want to install all that." I wonder how much Microsoft paid them for THAT one.
(etc.)
For truthful reporting, don't buy Ziff-Davis.
emufreak
www.kontek.net/pp
FamilyPC is rather disturbing (Score:3)
Its a typo, they said so. (Score:4)
Subj: Re: Letter to the editor from Subscriber James Gillespie,North Fort
Date: 10/12/1999 9:31:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: fpcletters@zdnetonebox.com (FamilyPC Letters)
Reply-to: emily_friedlander@zd.com
To: JWGflorida@aol.com
Mr. Gillespie,
Thanks for bringing this error to our attention. It was a typo on an editor's part that through a series of edits,
made it to print. Watch for the correction in our January issue.
Thanks again,
Emily Friedlander
Even though, I must say that is really some shady reporting!
perhaps we shouldn't go overboard here (Score:1)
The problem is, in order for these people to feel secure, that have to feel that the system is working properly most of the time, and I have to say flat out, that I have never seen a kid getting carded when they bought one of the games marked "mature". Naturally, this will cause people who believe in the system to lose their faith, and they will make an outcry that we should just ban these games outright.
Hmm (Score:3)
Having said that I think stores like CompUSA have a very real responsibility to watch who the sell games like this to. There are certain things that kids just shouldn't be buying. There'd be WAY more outrage if the game contained sexual content, rather than violent content, but the principles of mature-viewing are the same in both cases.
Just a little food for thought.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Feet to the fire (Score:4)
I happily put up with the flames to find those insights I would have missed.
One of the things I like about sites for nerds, linuxers, et. al., is the way they (we) subvert the mass media of the industry. The recent PCWeek debacle ("If I had installed the RedHat patches, I would have missed 'Baywatch.'" -- see the story on Linux Today) is a fine example of this. This story is another.
Okay, so individuals (including me) sometimes type faster than we think. So what? We think eventually. And we don't let lies go unchallenged.
Never be afraid to point out a falsehood! ZD deserves very little journalistic respect. This has nothing to do with the perceived OS bias, and everything to do with poor standards of fact checking and a complete lack of journalistic integrity.
Keep your eyes open. Catch them in the act...
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:2)
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
The truth is out there... (Score:2)
scarce at ZD publications. I regularly read
a variety of ZD publications and have lately
come to feel that they are of questionable
value for anything but the broadest news and
announcements. Anchordesk in particular seems
to be taking its cue from the tabloids and
doing its best to bring this...creative...
angle of news reporting to the tech world. More
and more I am leaning towards sources like
Slashdot because they are self correcting. By
their very nature, they tend to adjust towards
reality in the information they present. Since
the content is representative of a large group
of opinions, you get not only a feeling for what
the average opinion is, but also what the counter
points are. It's not perfect, it is prone to
groupthink and filtration in some cases, but I
feel that it provides a better source of news and
views then what we are seeing from many of the
more traditional mediums. At least with the
Slashdot model, the people providing the bulk
of the information (the Slashdot community) are
separate from the people with a financial stake
in having more hits on the site (Andover.net).
IMHO this makes a big difference.
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:1)
Perhaps this article was meant to have been in next months issue, or maybe the author should have done some research before making up this article. At the very least he could have lied about the article with a game thats on the shelves now...or even better, wait until Q3 is released!
*blinks in confusion* (Score:1)
Do they want the age limit changed to 18 (or 21, or 25 or whatever), or do they have proof that the 17-year-old was sent by younger friends/siblings, or what? This makes no sense.
Re:perhaps we shouldn't go overboard here (Score:1)
I have never seen a kid getting carded when they bought one of the games marked "mature".
There's a good reason for that: it's not illegal for them to do so.
For that matter, it's not illegal for a 9-year-old to see an R-rated movie. The only thing that gives R ratings any force is the theater chain's contract with the distributor. And the theater chains are required to place those restrictions by their agreement with the MPAA.
I won't get into the "kiss-of-death" phenomenon but suffice it to say that I don't think game ratings are actually enforced by contract, they're just there as an advisory, like the "explicit lyrics" stickers on CDs. And IMHO giving them any more force than they already have would start a "kiss of death" in the gaming market.
Changing face of journalism. (Score:4)
Slashdot itself is most certainly not immune to this effect and has on more than one occasion contributed to the spread of an incorrect of exagerated story, perhaps causing other more traditional media sources to pick up on the story themselves.
Unfortunately at this point in time, we can't have both lightning fast information reporting with 100% accuracy. The two are inversely related.
Hotnutz.com [hotnutz.com]
Halflife and Time (Score:2)
>let alone gold or on the shelves."
Hey, it's a good thing time doesn't exist. Now we can get our games before they're made. Excuse me, I'm going down to staples to pick up my copy of Quake 4...
FamilyPC has a habit of doing this (Score:3)
Re:*blinks in confusion* (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Actually, violence is the current hot issue in the media. The Columbine incident made violence much more important for parents to watch out for than just a little nudity.
So Jonny watching lesbian sex is not as bad as Jonny watching last action hero. Make sense to you?
Re:*blinks in confusion* (Score:1)
You must have missed that when you were blinking.
A funny argument (Score:2)
Chuck
News junkie (Score:2)
Yesterday I noticed that the newest PC Week and Wired had just come out. I went over to the Magazine rack and picked 'em both up (mostly out of habit). Then I thought for a second and realized that PC Mag is put out by Ziff Davis. I reflected for a second about the many things they've done recently and put the damn thing right back where it was. Last month's issue is most likely the last one I'll ever buy, and I'm a pretty mainstream tech guy. I know I don't matter to them because most of their money is from MS advertising, but I hope that a number of people defect and their distribution numbers go down and hurt 'em just a little. Ziff Davis no longer deserves my hard earned money.
The real problem with publishing this stuff... (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Seriously, you couldn't keep the media away if there was a store like CompUSA selling Playboy MPEGS (or something similarly profane) to underage kids. Here's the difference: Violence is disturbing, certainly, but sexuality is forbidden, and conservative groups know where their priorities lie.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Zd Net had a TV interview yesterday (Score:3)
Baited like a child (Score:2)
Regardless, I think Mr. Pitchford did have a mental lapse and should have taken his reservations at the top of the
That's the point of the FamilyPC sidebar: legislation with teeth. An argument for media content enforcement indistinguishable from, say, tobacco laws. Why play into it, Randy? Why hold yourself as evidence for your opposition?
Re:perhaps we shouldn't go overboard here (Score:2)
Ironic that a magazine called "Family PC" is writing articles complaining about, the supposed, lack of functionality in a process that allows a parent to put less "family" into their "PC".
If a game is carrying a ESRB rating, which is actually self imposed by the industry and totally voluntary, the parent has the tools they need to easily make a decision about their child playing the game without having to play through the game themselves. How hard is it to look at the jewel case, or even on the CD itself and see what the rating is. It's even part of the silk screen. The only way I can imagine little Susy playing a game like Half-Life, Kingpin or one of the numerous other "mature" titles out there is if the parent doesn't even put enough effort into seeing what their kid is doing.
-sw
Lame (Score:2)
If a 12-year-old walked into CompUSA and bought Half-life, who cares? Shouldn't the parent of that child be responsible? If you think about it, the only people who are really going to get upset about it are the parents. Then they're going to push for laws requiring an ID to purchase games. However, this will just cause the under-age folks to simply pirate the software since they're the best at that sort of thing anyway.
I say let the kids blow the crap out of people online. If they can't do that, they're only left with reality.
--------------------------
-Riskable
Bah. This is moronic. (Score:1)
Media Manipulation (Score:3)
We need games and articles that (accurately) depict programmers as sexy, desirable, stable mates to young women.
Too many young, attractive women are bearing children by young, attractive, athletic, stupid males because of the crappy TV shows.
Somehow, this trend needs to be reversed so future "crops" of children have the intellectual skills needed to keep technology moving forward.
Exploitation (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
You're right! If we let Jonny watch violence, he might just become violent, but if we let Jonny watch lesbian sex, he might become a lesbian, uh, what a minute.
"Violence on TV only affects children whose parents act like TV personalities." -- David Byrne
This post rated MA (Score:4)
I find the whole idea of restricting access for everyone to anything, because it is not appropriate for a subset of those interested - nauseating. Posting that idea on slashdot is sure to be marked Redundant, fire away.
How are we to protect ourselves from those seeking to protect us from ourselves?
As with the MPAA, TV ratings and music, is it not the parents responsibility to monitor what their kids are into?
[rant]
I realize that there are plenty of ingenious teens and pre-teens out there, able to pull the wool over their parents eyes - I was one of these myself. But if this is the case, than it is a failing of the parents. How can someone who does not put in enough effort to stay aware, raise a child? How can a child from such a home grow up with any sort of respect for authority (boss, law, peers) if they see their own parents as full of ignorance, incompetance and apathy.
[/rant]
Yes, technology moves fast, and working parents have a hard time keeping up with it - while kids have plenty of disposable time. But really, is it so difficult to talk to your kids, peek in on the lucky few that have their own PCs? Stay aware?
Conversely, as a future parent (God willing), after I approve a game for my kids entertainment, I want them to be able to go and get it themselves. I want the decision about what they can and can not do to be made at home, and not in a board room or a court room.
Frankly, the whole politically correct and sue-happy attitude is starting to trouble me. Cinema managers requiring that parents be present, after they permit their kids to see South Park? Clerks policing who can and can't buy a video game? You can't send a kid to school with aspirin, because it is a drug, and we know what school rules say about dealing drugs in school. Five year olds getting thrown out of kindergarten for kissing a classmate on the cheek...
It looks like this (video game availability over the counter) is going to become another instance of parents abdicating control to some organized, rightist organization - just to avoid taking the time to explain to their kids why they feel that blasting people's avatars into oblivion is inappropriate.
Feels like we're reaching critical mass here. But unlike the Japanese uranium workers, I'm starting to see red, not blue.
yes, actualy. (Score:1)
The truth is, there's nothing Wrong with sex at all, what would happen to little Johny if he saw two women making out? Oh, No!! he might become aroused!!! AHHHH.
I mean, come on what does porn actualy *do* to kids? nothing!
I personaly don't think that images of violance do any harm to little kids ether, but some do. However, I really doubt it's less damaging then sexual content.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:ZD's "objective reporting" (Score:1)
Re:General Reply (Score:1)
Re:Media Manipulation (Score:1)
The typical action video game is going to have to stretch a bit to make a programmer character, though. *I've* never seen Lara Croft sit down at a keyboard.
Good luck with your search for the intellectual skills needed to keep technology moving forward.
Re:The sad thing is... (Score:1)
Let's do something radical. I know it goes against the grain, but let's wait until next month. If ZD publish a full (and prominent) apology for the mistake, we'll chalk it up to the Shit Happens Fairy. If they don't, well...
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
I don't give a rats ass what ZiffDavis does. The only reason I posted that last message was because I hate to see people just to conclusions. I always give people/groups the benefit of the doubt, regardless of whether they'd do the same for me. It's not about censorship (well it is, but not for me), it's about what is, and isn't, lousy journalism.
Certainly they made a blunder. Possibly a large one. But I won't sit here (from a position of not having any hard facts, except what I've read here at Slashdot) and make a judgment on the people at Ziff Davis - It's just not how I operate, and I'd hope that some other people out there feel the same way.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Save the children (Score:2)
Personally violence disgusts me and I think there is too much in the media. I particular like gratuitous violence that has little or nothing to do with the plot. So i have made the incredible step of avoiding veiwing such violent content. I have plenty of friends IRL and online that serve as my personal guide to movies and games. The capalert site is also great for this in movies( i also find it hilarious; read the review of Tarzan for a real laugh)
The Save the Children crowd don't seem to think that controlling their own viewing and the veiwing of their children is enough. Itshould be enough for anyone, but they want more. They want access to all content they disapprove of limited for everyone. To meet this goal they use children as an excuse and then try to whip up outrage that children may have access to these things, and thus we must give over our rights to Save the Children.
Articles like the false one in Family PC serve their politial agenda. I don't care for that, but the fact that the magazine is guilty of sloppy editing or outright falshood makes me smile. It highlights the inherent sloppy thinking and deception in this political movement.
If they really want to do something about kids and these games why not make a site like CAPAlert for games? That might give people information that they can use to avoid games they would dissapprove of and even *gasp* monitor their own child's PC.
But they don't want that. They want to control my PC, and yours. I won't let them, I hope you won't either.
have to disagree (Score:2)
THQ is a half-assed outfit.
Acclaim games will always suck.
Movie-Based Games will always suck (except Goldeneye).
Games based on licenses (spawn, McKids, etc) will suck worse than a broken hoover.
I do have to agree with you on the "Linux VS. NT" test, as they borked it all up. Although I really don't think they were "paid" by micro$haft, they most likely fixed the outcome to stay in microsoft's favor. Considering all the "alternative OS" crap they've been mentioning, Microsoft's gotta be pretty peeved at their little llamas.
For official Magazines, here's my picks:
PC: Maximum PC [maximumpcmag.com]. they like linux, and are pretty straight-up. They even interviewed Linus Torvalds in their last issue of Boot (when they were still called that).
Linux: either Linux Magazine [linuxmagazine.com] or Maximum Linux. [maximumlinuxmag.com]
PC Gaming: PC Accelerator. good, and funny.
Console Gaming: GameFan. [gamefan.com] They're also keen on emulation (as seen by www.vintagegaming.com [vintagegaming.com])
DavesClassics is dead. Long live Zophar.net [zophar.net]
Re:Bah. This is moronic. (Score:1)
>to spot a fake-id.. Think Comp USA does?
Comp-USA doesn't have to care about fake IDs. Game censorship isn't a law (yet). The game ratings are not mandatory. If Comp-USA doesn't card the kid, that may be morally wrong, but it's not illegal.
>I find its amazing that they let 16 year
>olds drive cars, and in some states own guns
>but they cant buy violent video games
What do you honestly expect in the country where I can be drafted into the army, own a gun, enter into a binding contract and marry, but I can't buy a beer?
Why? (Score:3)
Why?
Quake 5 is much cooler anyway. Don't waste your money on 4.
Re:The sad thing is... (Score:1)
It's not enough to convict in a court of law, but I can change my mind if I get new evidence.
Re:Save the children (Score:1)
That should read "I particularly do not like gratuitous violence".
One day i will get the hang of proof reading.
Re:Media Manipulation (Score:4)
I wouldn't mind a job programming bisexual females. Where do you work and are there any open- uh, employment opportunities?
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
OTOH, I sure don't represent contemporary community values.
Look at what else they can buy (Score:1)
Re:AO rated? (Score:1)
On the other hand, if you like nudity,don't play games - browse the web
hehehe
Re:Lame (Score:1)
Since when did any industry become "in loco parentis" for the next generation? Perhaps I am still young and idealistic, but as a someone who claims to do a little thinking of my very own, I am rather distraught at the fervor that is raised every time the new surrogates fail at a job that shouldn't be theirs in the first place.
The fact that parents are paranoid enough to purchase such shody reporting is testament to the fact that they have shirked their duty. Who has reason to be afraid when they do something right?
Not I, and I wager not many in this discussion.
Our children will grow up with computers whether or not we like it, whether or not they grow up with morals or ethics is up to us.
Avoiding your duty and then whining that the system isn't doing it's job is an attribute that should be attributed to either ignorance or cowardice. I don't see a good option there
Re:Exploitation (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
I don't want CompUSA deciding which games my kids play, thank you.
Why is that parents in America no longer want to raise their children. I'll tell you what, if I'd tried to bring a game in to my house that my mom thought was too violent or too sexy... it would be gone. Plain and simple. (And oddly she was much more liberal than these ratings.)
If you had the sex, you bear the responsiblity to raise your kids. Don't push it off on the government, the corporations or the poor over-worked teachers. If you do, don't be suprised if they take the 'easiest' route. Think 1984 or farenheit 451.
Freedome of choice goes like this: I feel at age 12, my kids should be be allowed to play quake. (not Q2 or Q3, but Q1). You may disagree.
That's your right and mine.
OS bias (OT I Know) (Score:1)
P.S. If they'd put Halflife instead of Halflife: Opposing Force I might believe their lie about a misprint. I've worked for a news organization before and when you mess up you don't acidentally add words, you leave them out.
Some have called it a typo, but... (Score:2)
However, in the case that this failed, which it did, they have the backup plan of saying, "Someone mistakingly added the the 'opposing forces', assuming it was the full title of Half-Life."
It's pretty important in journalism to get the scoop (for news items) and also to be current in the 'information' you present. I wouldn't put this kind of thing above anyone.
Re:ZD's "objective reporting" (Score:1)
done because it was "no enterprise would want to install all that." I wonder how much Microsoft paid them for THAT one.
I didn't hear about the security test, but idiots exist in every large company. That doesn't mean that zd is anti-linux.
One of the more respectable shows on ZDTV is a show about PC computing called "the screen savers", and the host of the show is a linux advocate, and just had some guests from SVLUG on this week.
Re:ZD's "objective reporting" (Score:1)
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:3)
It seems fairly clear that they didn't do any of the "research" described, but merely fabricated a story to try to support one of their points. If I were the developer or CompUSA, I'd sue for libel, since it's clear they never attempted to carry out the actions they're denouncing Gearbox Software and CompUSA (mostly CompUSA, since they're the ones allowing the child to buy the game) for allowing them to carry out.
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
That said, while CompUSA has no place deciding what my children play, they definitely have a place deciding what they sell to children. It's analagous to stores selling cigarettes to minors. It's not really their responsibility to make sure kids aren't smoking, but they have no right selling my kids something objectionable.
Would you say that it's okay for Sam Goody's to sell a porno to a 12 year old? Of course not! If you did, I'd say you're a sicko. A parent depends on outlets to be responisible in what they sell. It's not a crutch for parenting, it's just assistance.
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
Re:Changing face of journalism. (Score:1)
Slashdot tends to be opionated and biased, just like every other group. But anyone who chooses to bother is also capable of refuting what was said. If they don't bother, that's their choice. If they do, and are just unconvincing... that can happen in any discussion.
What they can't do is rig things so that theirs is the only voice.... (well, unless they're slashdot).
Re:Media Manipulation (Score:1)
Carding the kiddies... (Score:2)
Now, apparently, the game ratings need to be followed by the store clerks, who, quite often, wouldn't be old enough to buy the games themselves.
What? Where did that come from? Is it a voluntary bit of information or a hard and fast rule? Are they looking to provide parents some control over their children, or are they trying to control everyone?
I can tell you that the first time someone cards me when trying to buy a video game, I'm going to kill everyone in the store. I'll kill all the children in the store TWICE.
So in order to protect the children from my violent rampage, lawmakers best not make it a legal requirement to check ID for the purchace of a video game. Think of the children!
-LF
Please note: This article contains sarcasm.
Truth, Justice and Children (Score:1)
Well, not really. But basically I'm more surprised when journalists get something right, not when they get it wrong. Think how polluted your kids minds are with all the sensationalist crap the media imposes on them. Relentless, non-stop past 'em on the walls, spam them on every webpage and on every media circuit ads hurt kids more than any video game will. Journalists are just there to sell the sensation to get the ad dollars in. Any preachyness on their part to truth and integrity is crap. It's just another form of advertisment, sell themselves to the ad makers who are handing out the bucks. Welcome to the 21st century.
Re:Look at what else they can buy (Score:1)
Re:Media Manipulation (way OT) (Score:1)
*I've* never seen Lara Croft sit down at a keyboard.
I'm pretty sure I saw her using a laptop during one of those inter-level movies. Uh, not that I've memorized everything she does, mind you.
Games and brainwashing. (Score:2)
Re:Lame (Score:1)
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:1)
You can join the army at 16. That violent enough? (Score:1)
So have I. In Britain we call them "the army". You can sign up at 16. So what's the fuss over 18-rated games when you can start killing for real two years younger?
Today's BBC story about the UK's "child soldiers" [bbc.co.uk]
Heck, in the UK you can leave school and get married at 16- if your parents agree. At least with the army you get out after 3 years of non-stop violence...
--
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
Point being, you have to watch what your child is doing in your house, but even if you patrol the house, most kids generally will have access to things you don't want them to. There's always going to be something or someone out there that will be tempting for them to do when you're not there even if there's laws against it and their only defense is for you to raise your child to know what's right and wrong and what's acceptable and to hope he does the right thing.
Not the issue here... (Score:1)
The issue is, people freak over a 17 year old buying Half Life and they're OK with 18 yr olds buying large sniper rifles?
That is rather ridiculous. Which would YOU want in the hands of a warped mind? *grin*
Real sex vs. fake murder (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)
If a kid's old enough to be interested in sex, the only thing to do is to start teaching them the biological and ethical knowledge they'll need to become sexually healthy adults.
Not the first, probably not the last. I'm not responsible for assisting you in raising your kid in the manner you choose, especially if I disagree with it.Re:Hmm (Score:2)
Re:Exploitation (Score:1)
And as for the press - they survive by creating sensationalist stories that keep the mass audience's attention. There are few newspapers/magazines that maintain any sort of integrity these days -- hence the pleasant shock of Jane's recent threads.
The Softbank Connection (Score:3)
This is all culled from the Softbank web site, at http://www.softbank.co.jp/ [softbank.co.jp]. Read on and be frightened:
For more, see these news releases:
There may be objective news sources (I don't know), but ZD is not one of them.
--Bantik
Re:Competition. (Score:1)
I certainly understand your willingness to compete with women if they're 100% of your solution set; that just creates more of a "target-rich environment", as Maverick was wont to say in "Top Gun".
But the bi girls will like you better if you don't chase the guys away. If you wanna ignore half the race as playmates, that's *your* problem :-)
Re:Media Manipulation (way OT) (Score:1)
I'm pretty sure I saw her using a laptop during one of those inter-level movies.
At the end of the first level of TR2. (Disclaimer: I just finished the level yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind)
np: King Crimson "In The Court Of The Crimson King"
Re:General Reply (Score:1)
Re:AO rated? (Score:1)
(I know, I know, I should take my own damn advice.)
I never understood the allure of pornography for adults. Sex is a participatory sport, not a spectator event. It's much more fun to be on the field than in the stands.
But hey, it's your choice.
Re:hate (Score:1)
Yep. Well, we'll let you know when we are yapping about whining to let you have chance at that one too.
Re:Why? (Score:1)
Except that Quake 5 won't run on your pitiful Dual PII-650. You'll need at *least* a Octium-5Ghz processor with a minimum of 16 Terabytes of RAM.
Since none of this has been invented yet... Wait! If time doesn't exist then this is all obsolete hardware -- pick one up at the local sidewalk sale for pocket change. Quake 5 is probably already installed.
But why would you want to play that when "Quake: Fourth Mellinium" will have been out for so long some day?
Whats this BS about 17 year olds too immature? (Score:1)
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:2)
Of course, I suppose somebody might point out that it is equally likely that this is the reason that they made this error when they "made up" the article. Take your pick. Personally, I'm not quite ready to start rolling out the conspiracy theories (and I'm normally one of the first people to do so).
Re:This post rated MA (Score:2)
You're assuming that if parents bear responisiblity for rearing their children well, parents must be the only ones with this responsibility. But why must they be the only ones responsible? In civil cases, law courts routinely apportion responsibility to different parties.
I acknowledge that parents bear the most responsibility to see to it that their kids don't become violent sociopaths. Perhaps those who post on this topic could consider the possibility that other people and institutions might also bear some responsibility in this regard.
That Old Trick (Off-topic) (Score:2)
Mark me Offtopic if you want.
Ah, that old trick. Nothing is surer to get you marked up than to request being marked down. Go ahead and mark this as flamebait, moderators! You moderators suck! I dare you to mark this down!
No, wait.. -2, argh!!! Glub, blub, blop...
A disturbing piece of work (Score:1)
Funny how these things work. Ratings are a vehicle that provide an easy target for censorship. Once you can get sales restricted to age groups, none of the major publishers and game company VCs will put money towards a game that isn't rated G. The vast majority of small shops that produce real games (aka games with mature content) will fold or be forced to sell out. It's a very simple process and it's worked before with motion pictures.
Particularly disturbing is the implication that the industry spokespeople actually exist and that they represent the wishes of the consumer and the development shops. When was the last time you saw all the gaming companies agree on something?
Kill the censors, before they make everything "kid safe".
Re:Media Manipulation (Score:1)
Speaking as another bisexual female programmer, I don't think we should portray programmer men as attractive mates for pretty little females at all. I think we should portray them as suitable mates for the scores of lonely scab-encrusted behemoth women who are intelligent enough to appreciate the beautiful internal logic of the warped minds in their gelatinous undersunned bodies.
I can't tell you how many times I frustratedly tried to get the attention of a seemingly intelligent male who only had eyes for airhead princesses who goggled stupidly at his witty comments. Although I tried to tell myself that they were just too insecure to want to date someone who was as smart as they were, I'm sure it also had something to do with the fact that they were unwilling to open themselves up to the possibility that they might date someone who looked less than perfect. As if dating an average-looking, intelligent women was somehow admitting that they also were less than perfect looking. Or something.
However, speaking as another bisexual female programmer, I also think that we should create a militant faction of cyberdykes and create a futuristic outpost somewhere in Montana where we will develop plans for our mind-control ray with which we will take over the world.
Not much of a risk (Score:1)
Parental Duties (Score:1)
My brother (who, funnily, is 17 and went through his share of violent games and turned out fairly normal other than having too much passion for C++..) shares the same view as I do. We hate parental monitoring not because we hate our parents, but because the idea is stifling.
I think the parental duty needs to reach deeper. They need to firsthand establish a value system in their kids where the kids will "learn" and "think" for themselves and come to the conclusion that "hey this is not a good idea". With that rooted, I think the parents will have much better time dealing with the kids. My parents don't know all the games we played, but we, in turn, never got into the gore-fest and porn-littered games. It just never appealed to us. They already know that we play "violent" games but that we take take full responsibility for our actions. Establishing that kind of value is more important than freaking out over one kid buying a M rated game.
Sorry for this severely off-topic post. I couldn't resist.
Re:Save the children (Score:1)
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
I'm speaking as the mother of a barely 16 year old teenage girl.
First off, this whole notion is crap - online, in games, anywhere. There isn't anything she can get online or see in a game that she couldn't get at the library - and that's been so for many, many years - I know, I read all SORTS of garbage when I was a kid. It didn't harm me any, and I doubt my child is stupid enough to be harmed by such things.
She's been online since she was 10, and without supervision at all since she was 12, and as far as I can tell, looking up dirty stuff online hasn't traumatized her anymore than me reading dirty books from the library harmed me at her age (and much younger).
Secondly, the whole "Well, violence is bad, but sex is REALLY bad" thing burns me up. I'd much rather kids were learning about pleasure than about harming one another. Our values as a society are really screwed up when it's OK to watch simulated murders but simulated sex is a big no-no.
Other thoughts I've written on this topic are archived here: Kids and Sexuality [magenta.com]
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:2)
Re:Hmm (Score:1)
Aside from the overblown *value* of the fines, the suggestion is still valid. I have to agree with the suggestion -- hell yes, people should take some responsibility for what they print as fact.
A printing or spelling error is quite different than an error in fact-finding (or failure to do any fact-finding at all) or an attempt to sway public opinion with "creative skewing of the facts." Wouldn't you agree?
Then again, if we *did* punish folks for spelling errors and such, we wouldn't have to read your posts either. Hehehehe
BTW, isn't it a bit sad that we as a nation would be in horrid trouble if we enacted penalties for spelling and grammar errors? Even I agree that we'd lose 99% of our voice -- not a whole lot of people seem to practice the seemingly ancient art of proper grammar and spelling these days
(Patiently waiting for someone to spot a spelling or grammar error in my post
How absurd. They'd buy a cheaper weapon. (Score:1)
However, you can't learn how to use any kind of weapon by playing Half-life on your computer. To suggest that is to delude one's self. It takes hands-on experience to learn how to load the weapon, release the safety, aim and pull the trigger.
Generally speaking, while video games may lead to eyestrain and repetitive motion disorders, they are not deadly weapons.
Re:perhaps we shouldn't go overboard here (Score:1)
Re:Its a typo, they said so. (Score:2)
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"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Re:This post rated MA (Score:2)
Re:General Reply (Score:2)
We should also get rid of television. The media serves to maintain the status quo as well.
I'm perfectly happy entertaining myself on the Internet.
Re:have to disagree (Score:2)
hehe (note its like Maxium cept for gamers)
Re:Hmm (Score:2)